Prenuptials

[HelloHockeyFans]

So my buddy is planning on proposing to his girlfriend very soon here, but recently, signing a prenuptial has really been gaining momentum to the point where he's pretty sure he would like one signed prior to getting married.

We were all talking about it over the weekend and obviously, how she will react to it was the number one concern. We can't really say for certain how she would take it because we can honestly see it going either way.

She could say, "I understand and it's fine. I'm not marrying you for your money any way!", or she could just as easily be very insulted that he would even be worried about that.

Any CP folks ever asked or been asked for a prenuptial? What's your opinion on it?

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by HelloHockeyFans

So my buddy is planning on proposing to his girlfriend very soon here, but recently, signing a prenuptial has really been gaining momentum to the point where he's pretty sure he would like one signed prior to getting married.

We were all talking about it over the weekend and obviously, how she will react to it was the number one concern. We can't really say for certain how she would take it because we can honestly see it going either way.

She could say, "I understand and it's fine. I'm not marrying you for your money any way!", or she could just as easily be very insulted that he would even be worried about that.

Any CP folks ever asked or been asked for a prenuptial? What's your opinion on it?

Unless your friend is super rich I wouldn't bother. If he is the heir apparent to a family empire......then explain it to her that way. A prenuptual means it pre-sets what she will get in case of divorce and DEATH! What the family will get, offspring will get and she will get.

[Ford Prefect]

Anyone who thinks they need a prenuptial agreement, regardless of the rationale, either isn't ready to get married or is marrying the wrong person and should reconsider the marriage ... in my opinion and experience.

[Draug]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

Anyone who thinks they need a prenuptial agreement, regardless of the rationale, either isn't ready to get married or is marrying the wrong person and should reconsider the marriage ... in my opinion and experience.

I can see that point. But, as the second poster mentioned, the prenup also kicks in in case of death. If a person were the heir apparent to a huge family estate, then I can see the value of the prenup. In that case, it wouldnt be protection to the husband, but rather to the rest of his relatives.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

Anyone who thinks they need a prenuptial agreement, regardless of the rationale, either isn't ready to get married or is marrying the wrong person and should reconsider the marriage ... in my opinion and experience.

disagree

[Dion]

If one is looking at a prenup that indicates to me said person has a problem with the other person and should maybe re think this whole marriage thing.

Frankly if it was presented to me before a marriage i'd be totaly insulted and hurt. Chances are i'd tell the girlfriend to take a long walk off a short pier. If you're not sure about me as a person be up front and express your concerns. We'll talk about it and if i still can't convince you then all bets are off and i'm looking elsewhere.

Bad move.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Draug

I can see that point. But, as the second poster mentioned, the prenup also kicks in in case of death. If a person were the heir apparent to a huge family estate, then I can see the value of the prenup. In that case, it wouldnt be protection to the husband, but rather to the rest of his relatives.

To me it's also like an insurance policy where you think the marriage is going to fail at some time and you want certain assets protected from the divorce.

[tkflames]

I agree with Dion on this, I think if you are ready to propose then you are ready to talk about prenup. It is such BS to make a conditional proposal, thats a great way to shatter most girls' biggest dream. "Hey Honey, will you marry me conditionally?", even people with huge estates, heirs etc. at minimum talk about it before even proposing.

[Muta]

I don't see what's wrong with a prenuptial. If you're in love, you've got nothing to worry about, right?

I would think it'd be pretty standard these days. If my fiance proposed that to me, I wouldn't frown upon it. (Extremely) short-term pain (emotionally) for long-term gain (for both sides), if anything ever happens. Any girl I marry would completely be cool with that.

[flylock shox]

One of the rare areas of social conduct with no established rules whatsoever. Pretty tricky.

I think your buddy should move all his money into Swiss bank accounts, then tell his girlfriend that he gave all of his money to charity. That way, if she goes berserk instead of commending him for his humanitarianism, he'll know she was just after his money, or just isn't a giving person. And if she's okay with it, he'll know he's got a keeper. At that point, he can ask her to sign the prenup (he's apparently got nothing to lose anyway, so she'll sign it without a second thought) or he can forget about the prenup (since she's obviously a nice person with no designs on his money anyway).

Alternatively, before he pops the question, he should just tie the engagement ring to a miniature roll of parchment with the prenup printed on it. This will show how serious he is about getting married, and will also play higher level organizational skills.

[prarieboy]

Originally Posted by HelloHockeyFans

What's your opinion on it?

My divorce lawyer strongly suggested a pre-nup if I was considering to get married again. I ignored that advice.

I might be wrong, but I believe there are a couple of hard facts that make the decision quite easy.

1. At the time of divorce any assets aquired before the marriage do not get split. Only the growth from those assets.

2. Any inheritance during the marriage does not get split. Invest it your name only and only the growth on the principal will be split.

Basically if you marry someone they don't automatically get half of what you own. If you cash your inheritance and pay down the mortgage on joint property, that is another matter.

Make an educated choice, why taint your life long commitment with "but what if"

[HelloHockeyFans]

^ prairieboy, those are great facts - thanks.

As for some of the other comments, I'm not sure I agree with the notion that if you are considering a prenup, you clearly aren't ready to marry.

Things can happen that neither person may necessarily forsee... it's nice to go into a marriage convinced that it will be forever, but the fact remains that s*it happens.

[flamey_mcflame]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

Anyone who thinks they need a prenuptial agreement, regardless of the rationale, either isn't ready to get married or is marrying the wrong person and should reconsider the marriage ... in my opinion and experience.

So, we get life insurance,car insurance, house insurance on the off chance that we could have tragic things happen to us and we need to be covered for those statistical instances. Yet, you have a 50% chance of getting divorced and you think you shouldn't get a prenuptial because its not romantic or whatever you're rationale is. People need to protect their assets and their personal interests on the likelihood that a divorce might occur. It's in everyone's best interest that a future outcome with a 50 percent probability is taking into account. Save the romance for anniversaries, Saturday nights and Valentine's Day. People get married for all the right reasons, but a lifetime is a long time. Heck, 10 years is a long time.

[Buff]

I really get a kick out of prenupts.

"I love you and want to spend the rest of my life with you, of this I am certain... oh and sign here, you never know when somebody better comes along."

[moon]

I have been married for 3.5 years and with my wife for about 12 years now. I doubt that she would ever screw me over for money and trust here completely but I see no problem with someone having a prenup.

Anyone saying that someone wanting a prenup not being ready for marriage or not marrying the right person are 100% wrong.

People change. The person you marry might not be the same person 10 years down the road.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Dan02

disagree

My, what strong points you make.

Seriously. Marriage is meant to be a lifelong commitment. If you think you need a prenup then go find someone else, because either you don't trust the person's feeling towards you, or you're just into the moment, not the person.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by Buff

My, what strong points you make.

Didn't know my personal opinion had to be quantitatively valued using "strong points"

Others have brought numerous issues up, as it stands i am getting married this summer and no plans for a prenup. That being said i wouldn't say no to one, I just really wouldn't care.

Marriage in its ideal is meant to be a lifelong commitment. Unfortunately, i don't live in a ideal world. Maybe you do?

[prarieboy]

Originally Posted by HelloHockeyFans

^ prairieboy, those are great facts - thanks.

As for some of the other comments, I'm not sure I agree with the notion that if you are considering a prenup, you clearly aren't ready to marry.

Things can happen that neither person may necessarily forsee... it's nice to go into a marriage convinced that it will be forever, but the fact remains that s*it happens.

Your right, s*it does happen. No one has a crystal ball to see 15 years down the road. Let's be honest, if you marry a girl and you both get rich along the way do you really want to say "I deserve more than you" which is what a pre-nup for people without any assets would do.

"I think" my facts are correct but I'm no lawyer, if you want, I can recommend a really expensive divorce lawyer for you to consult with.

[Thunderball]

I think there's two important things to consider with a prenuptual agreement:
1. They are not set in stone, which means two things,
-They can be amended or ripped up, and more importantly,
-If a judge considers it unfair, deems it signed under duress or under false pretenses... its suddenly worth dick all.
2. Prenuptual agreements are often referred to as "Succession Agreements", these are most useful for:
-Blending families
-to supercede a will or to compliment a will
-to allow a spouse to attain more share of the estate as the marriage progresses
-protecting inheritors


But unless your friend is worth over $1 million, its probably not worth the cost, hassle and trust issues. If your friend has children, or has been divorced before, its much easier to slip one of these in without dealing with the backlash. Its much easier to say, "I need to make sure my children are being taken care of in case I die" or "my lawyer says that I should get this to help plan our estate" than it is to say "I need to protect myself in case you become a horrible greedy monster."

I'm by no means a lawyer, I've just sat in on many discussions pertaining to these by much more knowledgeable people than me.

[flamey_mcflame]

Originally Posted by Buff

My, what strong points you make.

Seriously. Marriage is meant to be a lifelong commitment. If you think you need a prenup then go find someone else, because either you don't trust the person's feeling towards you, or you're just into the moment, not the person.

What part of 50% probability don't you get. Everyone gets married on the premise its forever. It will fail for half of us. Ask people who have gotten divorced if they wished they had gotten a prehup. Ask divorce lawyers how happy they are that people don't get prenups.