British Columbia adopts ambitious Carbon Tax

[Hakan]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home

Carbon Tax:
— Beginning July 1, 2008, British Columbia will begin phasing in a carbon tax on all fossil fuels including gasoline, diesel, natural gas, coal, propane and home heating fuel.
— The rate starts at $10 per tonne of carbon-equivalent emissions and will rise by $5 per year for the next four years.
— As of July 1, there will be a 2.41-cent increase per litre in gasoline. By 2012, it will be 7.24 cents per litre.
— For diesel and home heating oil, it works out to 2.2 cents per litre, rising to 8.27 cents by 2012.
— The tax will generate about $1.85-billion over three years.
— Two thirds of the money raised in the first year will come from business.
— The tax is to be revenue neutral and none of the money raised through the carbon tax will go toward program spending.
— Legislation will require a plan to be tabled in the legislature each year showing how the carbon-tax revenue will be returned to businesses and individuals.

I'm excited. I think that BC is the first jurisdiction in the Western Hemisphere to adopt a carbon tax. It coincides directly with my view on the role of government in GHG emissions abatement.

Check out an essay I published on the topic:

http://www.cwf.ca/V2/cnt/generic_page_200802141127.php

[MelBridgeman]

yes because more taxes solves everything..complete joke, when the oil companies are rolling in huge profits

just another way to pay for the olympics

[Dan02]

Am i weird because the thought of more tax on gasoline doesn't fill me with joy?

[blankall]

I wonder what the money will be put to specifically?

Also, isn't gasoline already taxed a ton. Seems kind of hypocritical for the government to benefit off gasoline sales and then impose yet another tax to offset carbon emissions. Why not just put a portion of the tax they are already taking?

Regardless of the debate on global warming, I think that it is probably best for people to stop putting carbon into the atmosphere. I agree with BCs plan to internalize some of the cost from industry. My main beef with this plan is it potentially places too much of a penalty on low income earners and could drive some small time people out of the market by making gasoline too expensive.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by blankall

Also, isn't gasoline already taxed a ton. Seems kind of hypocritical for the government to benefit off gasoline sales and then impose yet another tax to offset carbon emissions. Why not just put a portion of the tax they are already taking?

Begs the question as to what all the tax money from gas is being spent on besides infrastructure doesn't it. Besides you need to make those taxes specific. Can't wait for the Oxygen usage tax coming in the near future for your internal combustion engines at which point the Carbon tax can get tossed in with general revenues and no one will be the wiser.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Dan02

Begs the question as to what all the tax money from gas is being spent on besides infrastructure doesn't it. Besides you need to make those taxes specific. Can't wait for the Oxygen usage tax coming in the near future for your internal combustion engines at which point the Carbon tax can get tossed in with general revenues and no one will be the wiser.

It goes into general revenue....its not even spent on infrastructure or transit if you have been or lived in some parts of BC these days...

this is pure and simple a tax grab for a goverment spending on the olympics has balloned to over 6 billion dollars and growing...

and the lefties will package this all up and promote it has a goverment and province going down the right direction....

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by fotze

The last two points are the most important, as long as the government doesn't touch a penny of it, is a big step in the right direction. i.e. spending it 100% on actual reduction problems.

Indeed. And what wont be heavily publicized in 2010 is the little addon to some other bill that will change that, allowing the government to throw it into general revenues.

[Hakan]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

yes because more taxes solves everything..complete joke, when the oil companies are rolling in huge profits

just another way to pay for the olympics

Thanks for proving to everyone who read the post that you didn't read it.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Hakan

Thanks for proving to everyone who read the post that you didn't read it.

What is there to read? There is a new tax, all wrapped up in roses so that the mindless don't get to upset...

[Hakan]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

What is there to read? There is a new tax, all wrapped up in roses so that the mindless don't get to upset...

Spoken like a true ignoramus.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Hakan

Spoken like a true ignoramus.

not shocked at that comment...got anything to add? or just mindless insults

[Hakan]

It's not an insult. You proved that you did not read the post or the articles attached thus making you ignorant on the topic at hand.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Hakan

It's not an insult. You proved that you did not read the post or the articles attached thus making you ignorant on the topic at hand.

taxes dont work, prove otherwise please.

income tax - suppose to just pay for WW1...i guess we are still paying for it
GST - suppose to pay down the debt - we are in even more debt
health care prems - reduce wait times..still waiting
gas tax - improve roads...transit etc...royalties pay for that, otherwise royalties are low...no improvements
carbon tax...suppose to help the enviroment, is the goverment going to get it right this time..i dont think so

[The Yen Man]

Well, I guess I'm glad I don't live in BC. Man, more taxes on gas? Like they don't already tax it enough.

[Hakan]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

taxes dont work, prove otherwise please.

income tax - suppose to just pay for WW1...i guess we are still paying for it
GST - suppose to pay down the debt - we are in even more debt
health care prems - reduce wait times..still waiting
gas tax - improve roads...transit etc...royalties pay for that, otherwise royalties are low...no improvements

Taxes don't work?

So you would rather spend $2000 a year in carbon taxes instead of spending $1000 on an efficient furnace and saving $500 in taxes?

Yep, ignorant is right.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Hakan

Taxes don't work?

So you would rather spend $2000 a year in carbon taxes instead of spending $1000 on an efficient furnace and saving $500 in taxes?

Yep, ignorant is right.

So if my new furnance is going to save me $500 dollars in taxes each year, which means i will be paying $1500 a year instead of $2000..then you are telling me that i still have to pay an extra $1500 a year than i did when there was no tax? mmm let me think about that...

I guess what you are saying that a new tax is going to force people to be more energy efficient...? Sure i agree with that...

But taxes are forever, so once everyone has gone green..and we have solved global warming....i guess the goverment will cancel the carbon ta x hey? right!!!

[Calgaryborn]

I hate my government!

This money will be going into general revenues like all the rest. They will plant s few million trees and point to that as offsetting carbon but, the truth is those trees would have to been planted anyways because of the pine beetle. They will feed some of our taxes to green companies who in turn will finance the liberals when the provincial elections come around. They will give themselves raises.

One day the earth will start to cool and not because of the B.C. government but, because that is how the weather goes: In cycles. When that day comes and this sham is over all that will remain is the taxes.

Ironicly I was just commenting to a friend today how nice it was that the government was starting to give families a little relief. The rising personal exemptions and the addition of ones for kids have been nice to see. The fitness tax credit for kids and child care expenses deduction has helped as well. Now the provincal government comes along and "offsets" any benefit the federal government has given.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Hakan

It's not an insult. You proved that you did not read the post or the articles attached thus making you ignorant on the topic at hand.

Perhaps he did and simply did not agree with your view? I've read them and I certainly don't. I'm not a global warming denier either but I believe it's being overblown. Antarctic ice cores and even fossilized B.C. mud have shown that the earth goes through cycles caused by natural phenomenon much more drastic than anything carbon emissions or human efforts to cause or coerce change in their habits could ever cause. Carbon activism is an environmental fad that will fade from the limelight.

Taxes don't work?

So you would rather spend $2000 a year in carbon taxes instead of spending $1000 on an efficient furnace and saving $500 in taxes?

Yep, ignorant is right.

How about neither? I think it's quite arrogant how you come across accusing people of various failings in this thread because they aren't very enthusiastic about your ideas. Who gets enthusiastic about taxes and increased prices? What if they don't believe in what you preach? I certainly don't. I believe in spending the cash in efficient furnaces to save on economical costs, jumping on the chance to throw more of your own taxes to an "authority" in an emergent and as-of-yet unpredictable field such as carbon regulation is simply ludicrous.

[MelBridgeman]

it's the same attitude you get from anyone questioning anything in this debate, including people in the science community...not a suprise...but science is all about asking questions, not absolutes..

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

it's the same attitude you get from anyone questioning anything in this debate, including people in the science community...not a suprise...but science is all about asking questions, not absolutes..

To be honest, it's quite elitist, the condescending attitude that global warming and carbon regulation activists have toward alternative views. The attitude is often presumptive and self-righteous to the point of a religious squabble where one side thinks they are absolutely right (global warming activists) and that everybody else is ignorant or greedy or reckless about the environment when it is not so. They are just using reason and thinking for themselves to question something foisted upon them in the mainstream that is still very grey in the area of science...to the point where governments seeking easy policies and political support direct more funding and voice to those scientists that support this cause while opposing scientists are silenced.

I find the whole idea of being enthusiastic about carbon regulation and paying more taxes and fees for credits and carbon use to governments is absolutely preposterous. What makes them authorities on this issue? What guarantees they will spend that income properly or that it will curb usage? What benefit does it bring to one jurisdiction of people? It only increases the economic disparity between zones because it will never be applied equally on the micro or even macro level (globally - ie: developing nations). This is an emergent field and it is unpredictable. Pollution is harmful to the environment and it should be cut back, but there are simply areas where doing so is not economically rational nor is the effect proportionally beneficial to the environment in these areas to warrant these extra taxes and increase in government for an emergent field of unproven policy.