Singh case tests border agency's strength

[jolinar of malkshor]

The Canada Border Services Agency risks the appearance of impotence if it allows public protests to keep driving its agents away from deporting a paralyzed refugee claimant from India, a member of the agency's advisory committee says.
Don DeVoretz, also an economics professor at Simon Fraser University, made the comments yesterday after border agents, facing about 300 supporters of Laibar Singh at the Guru Nanak Temple in Surrey, called off a bid to take the 48-year-old man into custody. It was the second time in a month that protest has derailed their plans for Mr. Singh.
"They can't continue to go on doing this indefinitely," Prof. DeVoretz, co-director of SFU's centre of excellence in immigration studies, said in an interview. "Just repeating this process with the same outcome is not tenable."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home

OK CBSA, deport the guy already. You look like a bunch of idiots. The guy has a removal order.....so.....remove him. If there is a bunch of people infront of the church, go through the people. If they prevent you from entering, arrest them for obstruction. It's not rocket science.

[hockeycop]

No kidding!

This is way beyond enough now. Obviously the CBSA needs to learn 2 lessons:

1) Don't use taxi cabs to shuttle deportees to the airport, and
2) Don't call ahead and say "hey buddy, we're coming to deport you now..."

I mean really, who runs the show there?! It is overly frustrating to read these articles. Get me a can of bear spray and transport me to mr Singh. I will help him find his way to the airport!

[Daradon]

Is he being deported just on the false passport or are their more criminal charges?

I don't see the point of deporting a sick old man cause of a false (or very likely invalid) passport.

If he has other charges or suspicion of charges I might change my viewpoint.

But giving the order to detain or 'run over' as you put it, a bunch of people to take one man in for passport violations from a known poor country might be a little heavy handed.

[hockeycop]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Is he being deported just on the false passport or are their more criminal charges?

I don't see the point of deporting a sick old man cause of a false (or very likely invalid) passport.

If he has other charges or suspicion of charges I might change my viewpoint.

But giving the order to detain or 'run over' as you put it, a bunch of people to take one man in for passport violations from a known poor country might be a little heavy handed.

Ok. We are dealing with some one who ILLEGALLY and FRAUDULENTLY entered CANADA... I fail to see how you are standing up for him... Must be because he is old and in a wheel chair...

FUN FACT! Did you know, after he illegally entered Canada, he had health problems. The Canadian taxpayers have paid for his treatment so far. He is nothing but a drain on our system. He contributes zero to Canada.

People who use fake passports to enter Canada, use fake passports for a reason. That reason is not because they are fake passport collectors and grabbed the wrong one leaving the office to get on a plane!

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by hockeycop

Ok. We are dealing with some one who ILLEGALLY and FRAUDULENTLY entered CANADA... I fail to see how you are standing up for him... Must be because he is old and in a wheel chair...

FUN FACT! Did you know, after he illegally entered Canada, he had health problems. The Canadian taxpayers have paid for his treatment so far. He is nothing but a drain on our system. He contributes zero to Canada.

People who use fake passports to enter Canada, use fake passports for a reason. That reason is not because they are fake passport collectors and grabbed the wrong one leaving the office to get on a plane!

So we should round up all poor people and deport them?

And before you jump on me on people born inside Canada over people born outside Canada. Does being born inside Canada make you a Canadian or mean you have contributed anything to our country?

There are many reasons why a person would use a fake passport. Some of the bad and some of them, in my opinion, morally correct. I'd like to know more facts before I condemn the guy. Not sticking up for him, but we should figure everything out before we take action, that's what free societies do.

[Jayems]

What choice do the have? Go through the protesters, and cause a ruckus?

Then they get videotaped restraining the protesters, the country gets up in arms because they used force, then they're sued.. our tax dollars spent defending the border agency/RCMP, everyone is let off the hook in the end and the border agents are smeared with a bad name and the guy is still in Canada.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Is he being deported just on the false passport or are their more criminal charges?

I don't see the point of deporting a sick old man cause of a false (or very likely invalid) passport.

If he has other charges or suspicion of charges I might change my viewpoint.

But giving the order to detain or 'run over' as you put it, a bunch of people to take one man in for passport violations from a known poor country might be a little heavy handed.

He is being deported because he used a fraudulent passport to make a fraudulent refugee claim in Canada. He happened to sustain medical problems while in Canada waiting for his claim to be determined. So far it has cost Canadian Tax payers a cool $400,000 for medical treatment.

Now I don't want to sound like a cold hearted SOB here but the guy came here and the first thing he did was commit a crime and make a false claim to refugee. Now we don't know for sure but I think there would be a good chance that this guy would have had the anuerism in India if he never came to Canada. So, he needs to go back. If we don't send him back we might aswell put a sign up saying......come abuse Canada even more than it is being abused now.

[hockeycop]

Ok... Here is some background info I got with the power of google...

In Nov 2003, Singh made a refugee claim with his fake passport. His claim was based on Indian authorities accusing him of being a member of a Sikh separatist militia. This was found to be uncredible.

In 05 he is rejected from the Federal Court trying to file an appeal. He moved to Vancouver without telling anyone. He was trying to avoid authorities.

2006 Mr. Singh suffers an aneurism that leaves him a quadriplegic and spends five months in the Vancouver General Hospital's spinal cord unit at an approximate cost to taxpayers of $400,000 before moving to the George Pearson Centre, a home for the disabled, at a cost of $400 a day.

June, 2007 The CBSA learns of Mr. Singh's whereabouts and schedules his deportation for July 8 on a medivac flight estimated to cost $70,000.

July 8, 2007 Mr. Singh avoids deportation by fleeing the George Pearson Centre by taxi and taking refuge in an Abbotsford Sikh temple, the Gurdwara Kalgidhar Darbar Sahib Society, before scores of supporters.

Aug. 13, 2007 Mr. Singh is arrested by CBSA agents as he leaves an Abbotsford hospital where he had gone a week earlier on the advice of his doctor to treat a fever and infection from his catheter while at the temple. He is later revealed to be housed in the hospital ward of a pre-trial detention centre.

Aug. 15, 2007 At a new hearing, IRB member Otto Nupponen orders Mr. Singh held in detention until his deportation, rescheduled for Aug. 20, said there is no guarantee he will turn up for removal.

Aug. 19, 2007 Mr. Singh is granted an 11th-hour reprieve after Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day verbally issues a 60-day stay of his deportation after the intervention of Conservative MP Nina Grewal.

Aug. 22, 2007 The IRB agrees to release Mr. Singh from detention if he posts a $50,000 cash bond. Other conditions include that the Sikh Temple that again offered him sanctuary sign an undertaking not to interfere in his deportation.

Oct. 18, 2007 Mr. Singh wins another 20-day extension on his stay in Canada for an independent medical assessment on his fitness to endure the return voyage to India.

Nov. 28, 2007 Mr. Singh's lawyer Zool Suleman reports the IRB has again rejected his client's plea to stay in Canada and announces he will appeal to the Federal Court.

Dec. 10, 2007 Up to 2,000 protesters converge on Vancouver Airport and thwart the deportation of Mr. Singh, who arrived voluntarily by taxi. The CBSA determines it is too risky for its agents to venture outside to escort Mr. Singh to his Cathay Pacific flight.

Dec. 17, 2007 Mr. Singh hopscotches between sanctuary at various Sikh Temples in the Lower Mainland, after the Abbotsford Gurdwara Kalgidhar Darbar Sahib Society, which had provided him sanctuary for several months, suddenly says it can no longer house him. He goes first to New Westminster before taking up residence in Surrey's Guru Nanak Sikh Temple.

Jan. 9, 2008 The CBSA again cancels the removal of Laibar Singh, now age 48, scheduled for 4:30 a.m., because Surrey's Guru Nanak Sikh temple declared sanctuary for the disabled man as his supporters rally outside the gates.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Jayems

What choice do the have? Go through the protesters, and cause a ruckus?

Then they get videotaped restraining the protesters, the country gets up in arms because they used force, then they're sued.. our tax dollars spent defending the border agency/RCMP, everyone is let off the hook in the end and the border agents are smeared with a bad name and the guy is still in Canada.

The protesters are commiting a crime. They are obstructing justice. Could you imagine if the police had a warrant for the arrest of an individual, they show up to the house to arrest the guy but there are a bunch of protesters in the way. Do you think they would just say "hey charlie, look at all those people, lets forget about it, no need to do our jobs here".

I don't think so.

[hockeycop]

Originally Posted by Jayems

What choice do the have? Go through the protesters, and cause a ruckus?

Then they get videotaped restraining the protesters, the country gets up in arms because they used force, then they're sued.. our tax dollars spent defending the border agency/RCMP, everyone is let off the hook in the end and the border agents are smeared with a bad name and the guy is still in Canada.

This country really needs to stop laying down anytime someone might say something bad about them. The system is constantly being abused and Canadians shouldn't stand for it!

[Jayems]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

The protesters are commiting a crime. They are obstructing justice. Could you imagine if the police had a warrant for the arrest of an individual, they show up to the house to arrest the guy but there are a bunch of protesters in the way. Do you think they would just say "hey charlie, look at all those people, lets forget about it, no need to do our jobs here".

I don't think so.

Don't get me wrong, I think he should go and I say more power to the cops to go in there and start chucking people aside to get at him... unfortunately, people will be there with cameras, and if they do anything of the sort, the canadian public will be so far up their ass with complaints of unnecessary violence, regardless of how necessary it was.

[hockeycop]

Originally Posted by Daradon

So we should round up all poor people and deport them?

And before you jump on me on people born inside Canada over people born outside Canada. Does being born inside Canada make you a Canadian or mean you have contributed anything to our country?

There are many reasons why a person would use a fake passport. Some of the bad and some of them, in my opinion, morally correct. I'd like to know more facts before I condemn the guy. Not sticking up for him, but we should figure everything out before we take action, that's what free societies do.

They did figure it out... That is why they issued a deportation order.

I am pretty sure they are not allowed to deport Canadians... Silly Daradon, you made a funny!

[The_Dude]

There's been a huge uproar in the Sikh community over this. basically, if the guy goes back, he has no family or no support. He will just die with no care.

[hockeycop]

Maybe they could get a chopper and fly him to the airport and that way, no protestors will get pushed while breaking the law.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Jayems

Don't get me wrong, I think he should go and I say more power to the cops to go in there and start chucking people aside to get at him... unfortunately, people will be there with cameras, and if they do anything of the sort, the canadian public will be so far up their ass with complaints of unnecessary violence, regardless of how necessary it was.

If they used the appropriate force and we professional the whole time I think the public would actually have a lot more respect for them. The biggest problem here is that CBSA pretty much makes a public announcement on CNN when they are going to deport the guy. Go there at 3 am, pick him up and take him to the airport or maybe even bring him to Calgary and send him from the Calgary airport to get him away from the protesters. If the these people feel so strongly about his condition they can all take up a collection plate and send him the other $400,000 he needs for additional medical care so that he can receive the treatment in India.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Daradon

So we should round up all poor people and deport them?

What are you talking about?

And before you jump on me on people born inside Canada over people born outside Canada. Does being born inside Canada make you a Canadian or mean you have contributed anything to our country?

Again, what are you talking about?

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by hockeycop

They did figure it out... That is why they issued a deportation order.

I am pretty sure they are not allowed to deport Canadians... Silly Daradon, you made a funny!

I'm asking a deeper (funnier?) question. What makes a Canadian? Is it oozing out of your mom on Canadian soil? Or is it actually standing up for principles we hold dear.

He probably does deserve to be deported. But is it worth this big fight and negative publicity? No. More over, his only crime was to come here illegally and we don't know why he did that. There could be good reasons for it, there could be bad reasons for it. We don't know.

There are many brave people that come here illegally (and other countries) to escape all sorts of bad situations. You can bet your ass I'd risk everything I had to get out of certain situations and countries. We don't know how good we have it.

Can people abuse the system? Sure? But do we know he has? No. So far the biggest argument I've heard is that it's cost lots to keep him here. Which is cold hearted.

[hockeycop]

Originally Posted by Daradon

There are many brave people that come here illegally (and other countries) to escape all sorts of bad situations. You can bet your ass I'd risk everything I had to get out of certain situations and countries. We don't know how good we have it.

Yes, we call them refugees. Some do come illegally and enter claims. The system is designed that just about everyone can come into Canada if they are fleeing a real threat. Heck, even turd burglar gang bangers get to stay because if they go back home they will be killed or tortured. So why did Mr. Singh's claim get denied? Makes ya wonder don't it?

There is no reason he can't go back. None.

There are plenty of reasons he can't stay.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Daradon

I'm asking a deeper (funnier?) question. What makes a Canadian? Is it oozing out of your mom on Canadian soil? Or is it actually standing up for principles we hold dear.

This has nothing to do with being Canadian.

He probably does deserve to be deported. But is it worth this big fight and negative publicity? No. More over, his only crime was to come here illegally and we don't know why he did that. There could be good reasons for it, there could be bad reasons for it. We don't know.

Yes it is worth a big fight. If you don't follow through with the consequences then you might aswell not have any consequences. And there wasn't good reasons for it otherwise the IRB would have accepted his claim as a refuge. Canada accepts about 50% of all refugees that make a claim, so he must not have had a really good claim.

There are many brave people that come here illegally (and other countries) to escape all sorts of bad situations. You can bet your ass I'd risk everything I had to get out of certain situations and countries. We don't know how good we have it.

Fine, no one is arguing that people want to make there life better and do what it takes to make it better. But if you come to Canada under false pretences and break the law at the same time then you must suffer the consequences.

Can people abuse the system? Sure? But do we know he has? No. So far the biggest argument I've heard is that it's cost lots to keep him here. Which is cold hearted.

Yes, he did abuse the system. Instead of coming to Canada the right way, like most people do, he decided to jump the line. How do you explain to the actual refugee sitting in a refugee camp with absolutly nothing "sorry little johnny, we were going to take you as a conventional refugee but because Mr. Singh decided that he was more of a refugee than you, and that he had the ability to buy a fake passport and a plane ticket to Canada, we just can't accept you this year because we have already spent close to half a million dollars on his fraudulent claim. If you are still alive next year johnny we may look at your case again as long as another Mr. Singh doesn't try to pull the same Sh*t.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

What are you talking about?




Again, what are you talking about?

I was responding to a comment that wasn't yours. If you'd like to direct your arguments to mine, I'll take them.