Blackjack - Card Counting

[Agamemnon]

Anyone ever tried to count cards at blackjack? My friends and I are trying to learn how to do it. Anyone else ever tried? Any success? Lose your shorts?

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Anyone ever tried to count cards at blackjack? My friends and I are trying to learn how to do it. Anyone else ever tried? Any success? Lose your shorts?

I didn't lose my shorts, but I am missing a few fingers.

[habernac]

a mathematical mind is definitely helpful. My Dad is terrific at it. Used to kick ass at the casinos, we'd all sit at the same table and he'd basically tell us how to bet (it isn't illegal in Canada). He practices by going through the cards in the deck very quickly and keeping track in his head. There are books on it out there, not sure which ones are good or bad.

[Rhettzky]

The only type I have ever attempted is the plus/minus. At the beginning of a shoe start a count at zero and add 1 in your head for every card that is from 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and then subtract 1 for every card 8, 9, 10, J, Q, K. If you are in the positives in the back half of the shoe then you know you have a lot of high cards coming and negatives means you have low coming. Depending on the number of people at your table it can give you a very slight advantage for the last 8-10 deals.

[troutman]

Check this out and the book Bringing Down The House (soon to be a movie):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_Blackjack_Team

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by habernac

a mathematical mind is definitely helpful. My Dad is terrific at it. Used to kick ass at the casinos, we'd all sit at the same table and he'd basically tell us how to bet (it isn't illegal in Canada). He practices by going through the cards in the deck very quickly and keeping track in his head. There are books on it out there, not sure which ones are good or bad.

Yeah, we have the books, and a few online practise systems. So far it looks like the hard part isn't couting the cards (though you're right, you have to be a bit mathematically inclined and focused to keep track), the issue seems more about getting busted/thrown out by the casino.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by troutman

Check this out and the book Breaking Vegas (soon to be a movie):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_Blackjack_Team

Yeah, I saw a TLC special on this a year or two ago... probably what got me thinking along these lines. It seems to good to be true to have a system to beat the Casino's... I'm sort of looking for someone to crap on my parade and tell me why it's a dumb idea.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Rhettzky

The only type I have ever attempted is the plus/minus. At the beginning of a shoe start a count at zero and add 1 in your head for every card that is from 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and then subtract 1 for every card 8, 9, 10, J, Q, K. If you are in the positives in the back half of the shoe then you know you have a lot of high cards coming and negatives means you have low coming. Depending on the number of people at your table it can give you a very slight advantage for the last 8-10 deals.

That's basically the gist, though there are different systems... the one we're using is 2, 7, 8, 9 are neutral, 10's are -1, 3-6 are +1, aces tracked separately. Not sure which system is the best... some are definitely easier to keep track of than others.

[habernac]

if you try it in Vegas, odds are you will be asked to leave. Dad was banned from many a casino down there. They can tell by the way you change your bet.

[foofighter15]

Originally Posted by Rhettzky

The only type I have ever attempted is the plus/minus. At the beginning of a shoe start a count at zero and add 1 in your head for every card that is from 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and then subtract 1 for every card 8, 9, 10, J, Q, K. If you are in the positives in the back half of the shoe then you know you have a lot of high cards coming and negatives means you have low coming. Depending on the number of people at your table it can give you a very slight advantage for the last 8-10 deals.

Good system. going to try that

[arsenal]

Card counting isn't illegal in any casino, as long as you do not use an external device (ie: computer). All they legally can do, is ask you to leave.
And yes, they can tell if you are counting cards, based on your betting patterns. If you are betting $5 for most of the shoe, and then you break out the $25 near the end, then that is a sure sign that you feel the cards that are comming are going to be in your favour.

Which is why you then signal to another player to come take your seat, and you walk away. this may or may not get you into trouble. Not sure about the rules of working in teams and such.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by arsenal

Card counting isn't illegal in any casino, as long as you do not use an external device (ie: computer). All they legally can do, is ask you to leave.
And yes, they can tell if you are counting cards, based on your betting patterns. If you are betting $5 for most of the shoe, and then you break out the $25 near the end, then that is a sure sign that you feel the cards that are comming are going to be in your favour.

Which is why you then signal to another player to come take your seat, and you walk away. this may or may not get you into trouble. Not sure about the rules of working in teams and such.

No rules against working in teams... it's probably a better way to go as it's harder for the house to spot a team working together (assuming you're not idiots) than a single player raising/lowering his bet based on the count.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by habernac

if you try it in Vegas, odds are you will be asked to leave. Dad was banned from many a casino down there. They can tell by the way you change your bet.

They use electronic shufflers at most places in Vegas on the strip now, every single hand is shuffled, no more shoe history at those places. We'll more likely be hitting rural Alberta for starters, doubt we'll ever make it to Vegas.

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by foofighter15

Good system. going to try that

easy to do whilst sitting at a full table. especially with rookie players. they take more time to make decisions therefore giving you better opportunity to do the math in your head.

[ericschand]

My understanding is that the casinos will now change the
deck part way through. They will never let it get down to
the point where card counting will be effective. In general,
it's later in the deck, when you know what the odds will be
for cards in your favour to fall, that's when you make
sizeable bets.

The pattern of small bets early turning to large bets later
will catch any casinos attention, and you'll be "asked" to
leave.

Most card counters lose money. Very few will make money.
You have to be very good at maintaining the count in a
high stress, high distraction environment. Plus, you have to
make it look like you aren't even counting.

Many systems will close the house gap, but not remove it.
You may end up with a 50.5/49.5 favour for the house.

Find the book "Bringing Down the House" about the MIT
counting team(s). Read what they went through.

ers

[Deelow]

Originally Posted by ericschand

My understanding is that the casinos will now change the
deck part way through. They will never let it get down to
the point where card counting will be effective. In general,
it's later in the deck, when you know what the odds will be
for cards in your favour to fall, that's when you make
sizeable bets.

The pattern of small bets early turning to large bets later
will catch any casinos attention, and you'll be "asked" to
leave.

Most card counters lose money. Very few will make money.
You have to be very good at maintaining the count in a
high stress, high distraction environment. Plus, you have to
make it look like you aren't even counting.

Many systems will close the house gap, but not remove it.
You may end up with a 50.5/49.5 favour for the house.

Find the book "Bringing Down the House" about the MIT
counting team(s). Read what they went through.

ers

I noticed this too at Casino Regina a couple weeks ago. There were plenty of cards left in the shoe when the stopped down.

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

They use electronic shufflers at most places in Vegas on the strip now, every single hand is shuffled, no more shoe history at those places. We'll more likely be hitting rural Alberta for starters, doubt we'll ever make it to Vegas.

I wouldnt completely agree with that comment.
i was in vegas a couple of weeks ago and although they exist
they dont all have them

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by ericschand

My understanding is that the casinos will now change the
deck part way through. They will never let it get down to
the point where card counting will be effective. In general,
it's later in the deck, when you know what the odds will be
for cards in your favour to fall, that's when you make
sizeable bets.

The pattern of small bets early turning to large bets later
will catch any casinos attention, and you'll be "asked" to
leave.

Most card counters lose money. Very few will make money.
You have to be very good at maintaining the count in a
high stress, high distraction environment. Plus, you have to
make it look like you aren't even counting.

Many systems will close the house gap, but not remove it.
You may end up with a 50.5/49.5 favour for the house.

Find the book "Bringing Down the House" about the MIT
counting team(s). Read what they went through.

ers

its a great read
and I am looking forward to the movie.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by troutman

Check this out and the book Bringing Down The House (soon to be a movie):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_Blackjack_Team

I saw them filming in Vegas last February.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Sample00

I wouldnt completely agree with that comment.
i was in vegas a couple of weeks ago and although they exist
they dont all have them

Fair enough... thats why I said most places on the strip (I've heard), not all... and certainly not at casino's off the strip.