Running the score - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Sample00 · 11-28-2007, 12:08 PM

so here's an interesting topic for discussion.
when is it ok/not ok to run the score.
recently a minor hockey team went to a Winter Games play down and the final score in the game was 47-1.
my question to you is, is this a good thing or a bad thing.
and more importantly how do you, as a coach, advise your team of minor hockey league players to back off and not embarrass the other team.
secondly, if you back off, how do you make it look like you arent trying to embarrass the other team.
edit: no, my sons team was not involved

Cowboy89 · 11-28-2007, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sample00

so here's an interesting topic for discussion.
when is it ok/not ok to run the score.
recently a minor hockey team went to a Winter Games play down and the final score in the game was 47-1.
my question to you is, is this a good thing or a bad thing.
and more importantly how do you, as a coach, advise your team of minor hockey league players to back off and not embarrass the other team.
secondly, if you back off, how do you make it look like you arent trying to embarrass the other team.
edit: no, my sons team was not involved

After leading by an embarassing margin, as a coach you tell the team that before scoring to make X amount of passes in the offensive zone or make them pass back to the d-man at least once, or cycle a few times before a goal or a combination of all three. That way it takes longer in between additional goals (Sparing some embarassment) and the players are at least practicing and making the game more challanging for themselves. As long as some of the passes aren't done obviously when a shot is warrented it wouldn't look like your foot was off the gas.

Prototype · 11-28-2007, 12:24 PM

I think it would depend on the situation. If there's only a number of games in a tournament or round robin format, and goals for/against is a factor, you could make a claim for a 47-1 score. Justified? not sure if a +46 margin is needed, but it could come into play.

Regular minor hockey, I would say it's uncalled for. But I wouldn't know where to draw the line between acceptable, and dispicable. In all the games I ever played in, I don't think I ever had a coach tell me to lighten up on the other team, but none of the games I played in were as important as a Winter Games compitition.

That would be a tough call, but having said all that... I think 47 goals in a game is unfavourable, especially by one team. Interesting brain teaser there Sample...

GrrlGoalie33 · 11-28-2007, 12:25 PM

This is a tough call.

When you're in a regular season game, I don't think that running up the score makes that big (if any) of a difference to the final standings at the end of the year. I would discourage it.

But when you're at a tournament (shorter timeframe) GF and GA can make a huge difference where your team ends up. Is a 46GF in one game going to give you the edge you need? Probably not.

If the score was 47-1, there is likely not much the winning team could have done to avoid embarassing the other team. The skill level is obviously far superior so if they started passing the puck around it would have embarassed the losing team as much, if not more than running up the score.

As a player, I always preferred the other team continue what they were doing to get them that far ahead than starting to "play" with the puck. As soon as they started doing that I always felt I was the "pig in the middle".

Sample00 · 11-28-2007, 12:28 PM

ya, thats the interesting thought process in this.
if you back off, how do you back off so that it doesnt look like yer backing off and then it becomes a humiliation thing, ya know? we are talking about 12 year olds here and do they have the ability to do that?
another thought on the matter is, the game is to be played to put the puck in the net. if you are on the receiving end of a 47-1 thrashing. do you prefer the other team just go about their business and do what they have to or would you rather they pass the puck around and make you do a "pig in the middle" thing.

Prototype · 11-28-2007, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankster

But when you're at a tournament (shorter timeframe) GF and GA can make a huge difference where your team ends up. Is a 46GF in one game going to give you the edge you need? Probably not.

Exactly... BUT... What if another team plays them, and puts up 50 goals on the same team, and you let up at 10. That could be the difference between 1st and 2nd, or a bye into the finals, or a better, easier road in the playoffs. This is the only way I could see any kind of positive of running the score in this kind of situation.

GrrlGoalie33 · 11-28-2007, 12:32 PM

One "manners" thing I forgot to mention with running up the score. If you get significantly ahead, stop celebrating the damn goals. There shouldn't be a big on ice celebration for goal 6 let alone goal 47.

This goes for the players on the ice as well as the fans/parents in the stands.

Weiser Wonder · 11-28-2007, 12:36 PM

If I was on the losing end of that kind of thrashing. I'd prefer it if they just kept doing what they were doing and didn't play down to me. That's more humilating.

I remember playing U12 soccer. We were up 6-0 and our coach allowed the keeper (his son) to come up and play striker without putting someone else in goal. In other words, he pulled the goalie in soccer. The other coach promptly forfeited and took his team off the field. That's what not to do when you are destroying another team.

CaptainCrunch · 11-28-2007, 01:04 PM

Send your goons over the boards, they might keep the score under control, but you could then humiliate your opponent physically.

Sample00 · 11-28-2007, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Send your goons over the boards, they might keep the score under control, but you could then humiliate your opponent physically.

apparently that was done recently at a Novice AAA tournament with 8 year olds

Slava · 11-28-2007, 01:13 PM

I've been on the winning and losing end of rugby games like this. I can see that for 8 year olds its a bit different, but for older kids its not pretty. When the score is 80-0 in a physical game players start taking cheap shots because they know that they are being demeaned.

I think that kids should not be running the score up, and that the coaches should make them understand this. There is something to be said about sportsmanship at that level...and embarassing the other team has no place.

Ozy_Flame · 11-28-2007, 01:16 PM

In soccer there is usually a 5-7 goal mercy rule. Perhaps hockey can take a cue from that.

Dion · 11-28-2007, 01:20 PM

If a team is winning by a score of 47-1 one has to wonder if said team is playing in the right division/level. Or maybe the other team is playing at a level too high for their talent level.

Maybe there needs to be a mercy rule in tournaments to prevent such embarrassments. No one likes to lose by a score of 47-1 and i'm sure the kids don't like it when the other team is scoring at will.

bigtmac19 · 11-28-2007, 01:27 PM

That's a tough one, I certainly hope they did not celebrate the goals.

My son was in a soccer game as well, when they were winning by about 8-0 and their coach told them they had to pass the ball a certain number of times before they could shoot, and they could not shoot inside the box.

I would have thought at 47-1, they would have stopped the game or something, but I'm not real familiar with hockey tournaments and the goals for/against thing.

Locke · 11-28-2007, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

In soccer there is usually a 5-7 goal mercy rule. Perhaps hockey can take a cue from that.

True. Its really a tough call. I'm personally against running up the score, I think it demonstrates poor sportsmanship, but at the same time, it also demonstrates that some people "get it" in reference to sports accomplishments, you go hard all the time or you go home, and some kids dont.

Coaching a kids soccer team, I'm in a situation where these kids have had 10-0 scorelines against them (it doesnt go on the scoreboard or standings sheet, but it goes on the coach's gamesheet).

This was due to previous disorganization which I've been fixing, but you get a couple of those blowouts in a row followed up by a few closer losses and you wonder when you're winning a game by a landslide whether or not to let the kids run it up or not to sort of get their confidence back.

Sure the mercy rule kicks in, but these guys have gotten smoked so many times, at what point do you let them go once in a while?

Sample00 · 11-28-2007, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dion

If a team is winning by a score of 47-1 one has to wonder if said team is playing in the right division/level. Or maybe the other team is playing at a level too high for their talent level.

this tournament was a playdown for the Alberta Winter Games, so any team can enter in that particular division and unfortunately you have no say over which team you draw.

Dion · 11-28-2007, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sample00

this tournament was a playdown for the Alberta Winter Games, so any team can enter in that particular division and unfortunately you have no say over which team you draw.

Then maybe the coaches should make the players aware that they might might bump into a situation where they play a team that has far superior talent and the possibility the score may be run up.

foofighter15 · 11-28-2007, 02:19 PM

the toughest part to is if you are coaching kids, they don't really understand dump in, one fore checker, and just play d.
Kids tend to go straight for the net. I don't know how old these kids were, but I'm assuming that has something to do with it.
But don't keep sending out the kid who leads the team in scoring. Again, at a young age, they don't come off till you call them, so keep the weaker kids out there longer.

urban1 · 11-28-2007, 04:08 PM

This a timely question with so many complaints about the new england patriots running up the score on their opponents - and that professional football where players get millions of dollars to do their job of playing the game.

Are the pros wrong to complain about the opponent running up the score and the people here are right that you should worry that you only score 47 while someone else scores 50?

Prototype · 11-28-2007, 04:11 PM

It's a situational question I think. Many times in professional sports the record against the team you're tied with is the deciding factor, not the points for or against. In the case of youth sports, GF/A is a more importanat stat.

I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here. It's a moral call. It's not illegal to run the score, but that doesn't make it right either.