Question for those in the Industry: Engineering Business

[Phanuthier]

Here's my question: Engineering research and business is something I'm interested in. Strictly looking at qualifications and reputation, is it better to have:

a) a MBA

or

b) a MSc / PhD with a business certificate (i.e. Mount Royal Collage, NAIT)

This question is a little open ended since I was hoping for a broad range of opinions.

If you do have any opinions based on experience, that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by fotze

Neither. Work for a few years then decide. A MBA with no experience means ######.

How many years?

And how much is a MSc / PhD worth in industry when you are doing business?

[The Yen Man]

Well, my brother just started in his company and he works with a several graduate students who tell him that for the time and effort required to get a masters vs. the pay increase from a normal engineer, it isn't worth it. Once you get your P.Eng, you basically make the same anyways.

How true that is, I don't really know, since I'm an accountant, and not an engineer. But that's what I hear. I guess it's the equivalent to whether or not you should get your MBA in business. Once you get your designation (CA, CMA, CFA, etc), I don't think the MBA part really matters that much. I think it's more for prestige of the name than anything else.

[skins]

depends on your field of expertise i think. I'm a structural engineer and in September of next year I plan to begin working towards getting a M.Sc. or M.Eng (very useful in my field).

I have a friend who works in the land development industry as an engineer and he has an MBA from McGill. he thinks that it was very worth while and that it will help him move up the ranks faster than his peers.

depends on your career goals and what discipline of engineering you practice.

[skins]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

How many years?

probably 3 or 4 at least. you have to apply to get in based on your work experience.

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

And how much is a MSc / PhD worth in industry when you are doing business?

very little, unless it's in project management or something like that. U of C has a project management graduate program. you have to apply to get in and the prerequisites are similar to an MBA program

[SeeGeeWhy]

Hey Phanuthier.

I graduated from U of C in '05 as a mechanical engineer and started working in the patch as a production engineer. Next spring I will be qualified to apply for my P.Eng. designation after I write the professional practice exam as I had a year of work experience mixed in with my schooling.

Coincidentally, I also just started my MBA this fall at Haskayne - and as Fotze said - on the dime of my employer.

Basically, from what I can tell, and from asking others in my class, a majority of the courses you take in your MBA training are just rehashed business basics that most any B.Comm. would have learned while getting their undergrad degree. If you are looking for advanced or specialized business training (CA, CFA, etc), I do not think that an MBA is the way to go (at least from what I can tell so far).

That said, I still find it valuable as I never had this sort of training at any level of schooling. It is interesting, it is augmenting what I am learning about business while I am at work, and it will probably open doors to the executive management level after another 5-10 years of working should I stay in private industry - maybe less if I push it, but I would likely have to strike out on my own to realistically accomplish that.

It will also be of benefit to my small business, but I tried not to underline that to my employer when I was signing the education assistance agreement.

The second value an MBA affords you is the people you add to your network. I am in class with a number of international students and people with very broad industry experiences. I actually think that this is the more valuable part.

I am not exactly sure what your question is.. are you interested in engineering research, business, or the business of engineering research?

But to take a stab at answering your question, it is by far better to have REAL WORKING EXPERIENCE than either one of these two degrees. Especially when negotiating that first salary. Unless you can demonstrate to the company interviewing you that your M.Sc or MBA is going to have a benefit to them right away, they are not going to pay you extra for a job that they can likely fill with someone who only has a B.Sc. When you consider that it is YOU that pays for the degree in this situation, it doesn't look very good from your perspective.

I can think of many people that I have worked with that have had all kinds of different education levels and it is typically the person who can actually do a good job of what they are doing that gets paid the most money. I've worked with Ph.D's that are useless, and Ph.D's that are part owners of chemical companies that are great. I've worked with M.Sc. Engineers that couldn't do half of the things that a petroleum technologist could do. If I were you, I would focus on being that person - the one who does a good job.

I suggest that you just get out there and start to find out what you like - your goals seem pretty vague at this point and you're likely not going to find the answer your looking for in a textbook.

[Phanuthier]

Thanks for the replies

General question to all... to have a company pay for your MBA, you had to sign a long term contract with them, didn't you? Thats one reason I hope to avoid that. I don't plan on working for any one company for more then 5 years. So, I don't want to lock down to a contract, which is what they'll want for an MBA.

SGW,

I've been leaning towards MSc , then a business certificate and/or MBA (depending how industry views the importance of a MBA vs certificate) because like I said, I want to do engineering business. My origanal plan was to attain a PhD and work in R&D for a couple years before moving into business, but I'd like to speed that plan up a little more.

On one hand, I'd like to do the MSc to help build my portfolio... which was my origanal plan... but like I said, I've been having a change of heart lately and would like to speed that plan up a couple years which is why I'm considering MBA.

Long term goals are, I'd like to own my own business(s) that are engineering R&D (think: a little lab, sell your product), and for the most part, all of them have PhD's. Saying that, as the saying goes, "specialize, unionize" and I'm thinking that specializing in something (MSc / PhD) may not be that advantagous for me.

So, thats why I thought I'd cast a large net (thats why I'm vague on the topic) and see what the opinions are out there (I realize most of you work in big businesses, whereas I'd like to do business in small businesses) for how important a reputation / qualifications of a MBA / business certificate and MSc / PhD are.

BTW, my interest is to learn... I like to learn really cool stuff... which is why my original plan was to do a couple years of R&D. However, I'm thinking that if I start to specialize, its not gonna take me on the business direction I want to go.

[SeeGeeWhy]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Thanks for the replies

General question to all... to have a company pay for your MBA, you had to sign a long term contract with them, didn't you? Thats one reason I hope to avoid that. I don't plan on working for any one company for more then 5 years. So, I don't want to lock down to a contract, which is what they'll want for an MBA.

SGW,

I've been leaning towards MSc , then a business certificate and/or MBA (depending how industry views the importance of a MBA vs certificate) because like I said, I want to do engineering business. My origanal plan was to attain a PhD and work in R&D for a couple years before moving into business, but I'd like to speed that plan up a little more.

On one hand, I'd like to do the MSc to help build my portfolio... which was my origanal plan... but like I said, I've been having a change of heart lately and would like to speed that plan up a couple years which is why I'm considering MBA.

Long term goals are, I'd like to own my own business(s) that are engineering R&D (think: a little lab, sell your product), and for the most part, all of them have PhD's. Saying that, as the saying goes, "specialize, unionize" and I'm thinking that specializing in something (MSc / PhD) may not be that advantagous for me.

So, thats why I thought I'd cast a large net (thats why I'm vague on the topic) and see what the opinions are out there (I realize most of you work in big businesses, whereas I'd like to do business in small businesses) for how important a reputation / qualifications of a MBA / business certificate and MSc / PhD are.

BTW, my interest is to learn... I like to learn really cool stuff... which is why my original plan was to do a couple years of R&D. However, I'm thinking that if I start to specialize, its not gonna take me on the business direction I want to go.

My agreement is that my company pays half up front, and then pays the other half once I pass the course. If I leave the company within 3 years of completing my MBA, I will have to pay them back. If I am leaving because my small business is making enough money to replace my salary - it's no problem; and if I am leaving to work at another firm, they will pick up the tab as part of me coming over - so again, it's no problem. Working at one place for 5 years isn't necessarily a bad thing, there is no reason to avoid it if you are still growing professionally.

You might find a company like CFER (centre for engineering research) in Edmonton interesting to work at. I can ask my contact what sort of qualifications you need to work there, if you like.

My thoughts are that any of those degrees or certifications are much more valuable after you have worked for a while. The theory just doesn't mean as much compared to hands on experience. Not to you, not to your employer, and not to your clients.

[firebug]

A business certificate is worthless.

An MBA for a BComm grad has limited value, they are better off with a credential (CFA, CA, etc.)

An MBA with a professional designation like an P.Eng or P.Geol can be very valuable, provides a lot of employment flexibility, and looks good in the 'C-Suite'. In fact it may be the route I recommend to my son (when the time comes in 15years).

I cannot speak to the value a Masters or Ph.d provides.

~bug