Border guards failing firearms training

[jolinar of malkshor]

More than one in five of Canada’s border guards are failing weapons training, according to their union.

Moran said the union was concerned the CBSA was simply replicating the RCMP recruit training and compressing it into a much shorter time span.

“I was extremely concerned when I learned that while the RCMP spreads out its overall firearms training over their entire 16-week recruit training program prior to testing its younger recruit force, they are testing CBSA officers after having compressed the same demanding training over a mere eight days,” wrote Moran.

http://www.hrreporter.com/loginarea/...ArticleNo=5473

I am actually suprised the number isn't higher given that fact that all the old timers are from back in the day when the agency was considered a tax collecting department. I guess they probably aren't sending those people right now and are waiting for them to retire. I don't think it is that bad for trying to train these people in 8 days which normaly takes 16 weeks. They either need to spreed the training time out over several weeks or let these people take the test over if they fail.

Your thoughts?

[urban1]

No surprise if youve ever crossed the border and had any interaction with any guards.

[Burninator]

I didn't even know the boarder guards had guns, shows what I know.

But just as an aside. I notice you are always posting topics about the boarder. Do you work at the boarder, live near a crossing or work in a related field? Just curious.

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by Burninator

I didn't even know the boarder guards had guns, shows what I know.

But just as an aside. I notice you are always posting topics about the boarder. Do you work at the boarder, live near a crossing or work in a related field? Just curious.

They never used to, but their American counterparts do, and when the Harper government came into power, they made this a priority. In principle, it's a good thing. I just hope they can become competent.

And to me, more than 1 in 5 is not such a massive deal. Send them back for more training.

[Frank the Tank]

Originally Posted by urban1

No surprise if youve ever crossed the border and had any interaction with any guards.

What does that even mean?

Compressing 16 weeks into 8 days is unreal. Totally unfair to the boarder guards.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Burninator

I didn't even know the boarder guards had guns, shows what I know.

But just as an aside. I notice you are always posting topics about the boarder. Do you work at the boarder, live near a crossing or work in a related field? Just curious.

I post a lot of stuff regarding law enforcement. I am in the law enforcement field. I lived in Lethbridge for about 14 years and also Waterton for a while so I have crossed the border quite a bit. I have a few friends that work for CBSA aswell.

[fredr123]

The article suggests that any changes to the program involve giving the officers more training and more time to practice. That's a good thing in my books. Hopefully politics and/or union involvement doesn't result in the test becoming easier in order to increase the graduation rate...

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by fredr123

The article suggests that any changes to the program involve giving the officers more training and more time to practice. That's a good thing in my books. Hopefully politics and/or union involvement doesn't result in the test becoming easier in order to increase the graduation rate...

True that.

[FlamesAddiction]

So what part are they failing? The part where they point, or the part where they shoot? I kid.

But seriously, what is involved in using a firearm that usually takes 4 months to learn? That's a long time for what seems to be a straight forward thing.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

So what part are they failing? The part where they point, or the part where they shoot? I kid.

But seriously, what is involved in using a firearm that usually takes 4 months to learn? That's a long time for what seems to be a straight forward thing.

I think the RCMP spread the firearms training out over that period of time. I don't think they are doing firearms training everyday. But it allows the officer more time to practice in their own time and they aren't stuck shooting off thousands of rounds in 8 days. I like shooting but even for me that is a lot of shooting in a 1 week period.

Not to mention , I bet a lot of these people have never handled a firearm before so they send someone to training and expect them to be experts in 8 days. They need to have the training over a longer period of time. IMO

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

So what part are they failing? The part where they point, or the part where they shoot? I kid.

But seriously, what is involved in using a firearm that usually takes 4 months to learn? That's a long time for what seems to be a straight forward thing.

One of the articles I read said most failures occur at the 25 m test. That's Jack Bauer territory and not exactly a common distance for law enforcement to be using a pistol. Anyone who has ever been to a gun range and tried firing a side arm can probably attest to that.

[BlackArcher101]

Didn't they make this training course harder because there were too many passing? I swear I read that somewhere. If that's the case, then I'm not sure why some failing is even news, it should be expected.

[MolsonInBothHands]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I post a lot of stuff regarding law enforcement. I am in the law enforcement field. I lived in Lethbridge for about 14 years and also Waterton for a while so I have crossed the border quite a bit. I have a few friends that work for CBSA aswell.

So, is it possible to post on CP from the laptop in the cruiser?

Sorry for the OT, but I think that might be what the police were doing today on my drive to work. The new exit from Deerfoot South to Southland drive is a popular spot for speed traps. I was busted once there when it was first completed - it is an 80 km/h zone but it would be easy to go much faster coming off of the Deerfoot 500. Today a guy comes flying in on the merge from Deerfoot meadows (Must be in a hurry to get home with his copy of Halo 3.) - cut people off in his merge, and was doing at least 120 IMO. I thought to myself it would be a hefty ticket if the cops happened to be in their usual spot, and they were!! Two cruisers, no tickets being written, and the cruisers are hidden well enough behind the sign the guy didn't hit the brakes until way too late. He hit Southland drive, pinned it again and ran the yellow at Southland and Blackfoot. They must have been on coffee break, I couldn't see a single cop, just two cruisers with their trunks open. Some guys have all the luck. If it had been me, there would have been a court appearance in my future.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by MolsonInBothHands

So, is it possible to post on CP from the laptop in the cruiser?

Sorry for the OT, but I think that might be what the police were doing today on my drive to work. The new exit from Deerfoot South to Southland drive is a popular spot for speed traps. I was busted once there when it was first completed - it is an 80 km/h zone but it would be easy to go much faster coming off of the Deerfoot 500. Today a guy comes flying in on the merge from Deerfoot meadows (Must be in a hurry to get home with his copy of Halo 3.) - cut people off in his merge, and was doing at least 120 IMO. I thought to myself it would be a hefty ticket if the cops happened to be in their usual spot, and they were!! Two cruisers, no tickets being written, and the cruisers are hidden well enough behind the sign the guy didn't hit the brakes until way too late. He hit Southland drive, pinned it again and ran the yellow at Southland and Blackfoot. They must have been on coffee break, I couldn't see a single cop, just two cruisers with their trunks open. Some guys have all the luck. If it had been me, there would have been a court appearance in my future.

Lucky prick that guy is.

[burn_baby_burn]

As someone who grew up crossing the border frequently. I have mixed feelings about Customs Officers carrying weapons. You will have a tough time finding a lazier workforce in Canada. Anybody I know that has worked there that has any ambition what so ever. Coudn't take it anymore and quit. To top that off. Some of them are want to be police officers who can't pass the entry exams (I'm not in law enforcement, so I'm not sure what the entry process is).

Should Customs Officers be allowed to protect themselves? I believe so. After all their American couterparts are allowed to. Should the government be doing a better job of training these Customs Officers? Yes, it isn't fair that individuals who may never have handled a firearm before. Are required to pass firearms training in eight days.

My concern. Is that some novice rookie, (who was express trained on a the use of a firearm) may take a shot (accidently or intentionally) at a criminal. Or some hot head want to be cop, who coudn't pass the physcilogical portion of the RCMP entrance requirments and has fantasy's about shooting a criminal. Might spray stray bullets that hit innocent people.

I hope I'm wrong. But the whole idea scares me.

[Bobblehead]

If everyone passes a course first try then the course would probably be too easy. Let the ones who didn't pass try again, or offer additional training in the area they failed before trying again.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

As someone who grew up crossing the border frequently. I have mixed feelings about Customs Officers carrying weapons. You will have a tough time finding a lazier workforce in Canada. Anybody I know that has worked there that has any ambition what so ever. Coudn't take it anymore and quit. To top that off. Some of them are want to be police officers who can't pass the entry exams (I'm not in law enforcement, so I'm not sure what the entry process is).

Should Customs Officers be allowed to protect themselves? I believe so. After all their American couterparts are allowed to. Should the government be doing a better job of training these Customs Officers? Yes, it isn't fair that individuals who may never have handled a firearm before. Are required to pass firearms training in eight days.

My concern. Is that some novice rookie, (who was express trained on a the use of a firearm) may take a shot (accidently or intentionally) at a criminal. Or some hot head want to be cop, who coudn't pass the physcilogical portion of the RCMP entrance requirments and has fantasy's about shooting a criminal. Might spray stray bullets that hit innocent people.

I hope I'm wrong. But the whole idea scares me.

Psychological testing is required for these officers before they can take the training.

https://psjobs-emploisfp.psc-cfp.gc....noBackBtn=true

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/agency-ag...nu-eng.html#sp

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Psychological testing is required for these officers before they can take the training.

https://psjobs-emploisfp.psc-cfp.gc....noBackBtn=true

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/agency-ag...nu-eng.html#sp

Good. I know it is a mindless job. But if your going to give these people guns. I really hope they screen who they are giving them to.

[Agamemnon]

It seems kind of obvious that the training the Mounties get in 4 months is not being condensed into 8 days for the border guards. The Mounties probably don't spend much more than 8-10 days during their 4 month period on firearms themselves, I'm sure most of it is classroom/physical work. It's not like they spend weeks and weeks at the firing range just learning to shoot a gun.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

It seems kind of obvious that the training the Mounties get in 4 months is not being condensed into 8 days for the border guards. The Mounties probably don't spend much more than 8-10 days during their 4 month period on firearms themselves, I'm sure most of it is classroom/physical work. It's not like they spend weeks and weeks at the firing range just learning to shoot a gun.

True, but to me a 20% failure rate is about where it should be, I would have troubles if there was a higher pass rate, that to me would be more dangerous.

Some people are just not well suited to shooting for mental and physical reasons.