08-19-2007, 02:08 PM
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#2
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wins 10 internets
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: slightly to the left
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ya they showed this on the Daily Show, and then right after followed up with Cheney's statements right before the invasion about how it would be "easy" and "over in a matter of months". it's amazing how two-faced and outright dishonest that administration has been, yet there's been no real public outcry. if a president getting a simple hummer can lead to impeachment, where has the public outcry been for Bush? all Clinton did was lie about a little chubby chasing, Bush and co's lies have lead to the deaths of thousands of American soldiers and tens of thousands of innocent civilians
hell never mind impeachment, that entire cabinet should be tried for war crimes
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08-19-2007, 02:09 PM
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#3
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald
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I bet they just edited the dates
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08-19-2007, 02:16 PM
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#4
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Void between Darkness and Light
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda
hell never mind impeachment, that entire cabinet should be tried for war crimes
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Now you're talkin'!
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08-19-2007, 02:25 PM
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#5
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Kalispell, Montana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda
ya they showed this on the Daily Show, and then right after followed up with Cheney's statements right before the invasion about how it would be "easy" and "over in a matter of months". it's amazing how two-faced and outright dishonest that administration has been, yet there's been no real public outcry. if a president getting a simple hummer can lead to impeachment, where has the public outcry been for Bush? all Clinton did was lie about a little chubby chasing, Bush and co's lies have lead to the deaths of thousands of American soldiers and tens of thousands of innocent civilians
hell never mind impeachment, that entire cabinet should be tried for war crimes
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Clinton was never impeached.
There has been a public outcry against Bush. Not sure what you're talking about with that one.
__________________
I am in love with Montana. For other states I have admiration, respect, recognition, even some affection, but with Montana it is love." - John Steinbeck
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08-19-2007, 02:39 PM
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#6
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2004
Location: YSJ (1979-2002) -> YYC (2002-2022) -> YVR (2022-present)
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Quote:
Clinton was never impeached.
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Incorrect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment
Quote:
The impeachment-trial procedure is in two steps. The House of Representatives must first pass "articles of impeachment" by a simple majority. (All fifty state legislatures as well as the District of Columbia city council may also pass articles of impeachment against their own executives.) The articles of impeachment constitute the formal allegations. Upon their passage, the defendant has been "impeached."
Next, the Senate tries the accused. In the case of the impeachment of a President, the Chief Justice of the United States presides over the proceedings. Otherwise, the Vice President, in his capacity as President of the Senate, or the President pro tempore of the Senate presides. This may include the impeachment of the Vice President, although legal theories suggest that allowing a person to be the judge in the case where she or he was the defendant wouldn't be permitted. If the Vice President did not preside over an impeachment (of someone other than the President), the duties would fall to the President Pro Tempore.
In order to convict the accused, a two-thirds majority of the senators present is required. Conviction automatically removes the defendant from office.
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Clinton was impeached by the House of Representatives. He was not convicted by the Senate.
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08-19-2007, 02:48 PM
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#7
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wins 10 internets
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: slightly to the left
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan
Clinton was never impeached.
There has been a public outcry against Bush. Not sure what you're talking about with that one.
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wasn't the story that Clinton was impeached by the house, but it didn't get through the senate to make it official? (or maybe the other way around, i don't know how the US system works)
and as for public outcry, it depends on how you define it. sure there have been protests and liberal media has been all over Bush from day one, but it hasn't gone further then that. where are the legal or political actions to remove Bush from power? where is the public pressure to force that administration to come clean about what the real reasons were for war? hell they even get a free pass from the major media outlets. you don't see stories like this on CNN, and Bush could personally kill an entire nursery of kids and Fox News would praise him for being on top of the overpopulation crisis
compare what Bush and his underlings have done to how much scrutiny Clinton was under for even the most minor of issues. this current administration has gotten a free ride
EDIT: too slow, thanks for the definitive MarchHare
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08-19-2007, 03:28 PM
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#8
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Kalispell, Montana
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Clinton's folly was the subject of so much coverage because of it's sexual nature...nothing more. His impeachment (thanks for the correction March Hare) was the result of him lying under oath...not receiving fellatio in the oval office.
Congress is contolled by democrats now. I'm sure if they could, they'd be trying to impeach Bush right now.
__________________
I am in love with Montana. For other states I have admiration, respect, recognition, even some affection, but with Montana it is love." - John Steinbeck
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08-19-2007, 03:33 PM
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#9
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wins 10 internets
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: slightly to the left
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan
Clinton's folly was the subject of so much coverage because of it's sexual nature...nothing more. His impeachment (thanks for the correction March Hare) was the result of him lying under oath...not receiving fellatio in the oval office.
Congress is contolled by democrats now. I'm sure if they could, they'd be trying to impeach Bush right now.
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yea i guess if Clinton simply relied on the Bush mantra of "i don't know" or "i can't recall that specific situation" he would have been alright
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08-19-2007, 03:39 PM
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#10
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Kalispell, Montana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda
yea i guess if Clinton simply relied on the Bush mantra of "i don't know" or "i can't recall that specific situation" he would have been alright
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Maybe, doesn't matter to me. I don't think Bush has been put in the position Clinton was in. With a democratic Congress shouldn't that be happening?
__________________
I am in love with Montana. For other states I have admiration, respect, recognition, even some affection, but with Montana it is love." - John Steinbeck
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08-19-2007, 04:20 PM
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#11
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wins 10 internets
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: slightly to the left
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan
Maybe, doesn't matter to me. I don't think Bush has been put in the position Clinton was in. With a democratic Congress shouldn't that be happening?
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well that's just the problem isn't it, the democrats are just as much to blame for giving Bush a free ride as anyone else. on one hand you have the Republicans who will do their best to crucify someone for the slightest issue (though they were strangely quiet during the whole pedophile senator episode, who also happened to be a republican), and then on the other hand you have the democrats who will stand up on a soapbox and decry Bush, but when it comes to action the biggest thing that they have the balls to muster is a "non-binding resolution". they're so worried about trying to please everybody that they end up doing nothing and pleasing no one (kind of like the Liberals in Canada)
i guess it's safer to say that American politics is just a mess and isn't likely to get better anytime soon
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08-19-2007, 04:26 PM
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#12
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda
yea i guess if Clinton simply relied on the Bush mantra of "i don't know" or "i can't recall that specific situation" he would have been alright
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He tried that. Don't you remember the dress she brought out as evidence?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimbl420
I can wash my penis without taking my pants off.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moneyhands23
If edmonton wins the cup in the next decade I will buy everyone on CP a bottle of vodka.
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08-19-2007, 04:32 PM
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#13
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wins 10 internets
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: slightly to the left
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireFly
He tried that. Don't you remember the dress she brought out as evidence?
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he still should have stuck with the lie. hell they had a bloody glove on OJ and that still didn't faze him
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08-19-2007, 04:33 PM
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#14
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Kalispell, Montana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda
i guess it's safer to say that American politics is just a mess and isn't likely to get better anytime soon
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Truer words may never have been typed in this forum.
__________________
I am in love with Montana. For other states I have admiration, respect, recognition, even some affection, but with Montana it is love." - John Steinbeck
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08-19-2007, 04:34 PM
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#15
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Void between Darkness and Light
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda
he still should have stuck with the lie. hell they had a bloody glove on OJ and that still didn't faze him
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They should have made lewinsky put the dress on.
If it does not fit, you must aquit.
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08-19-2007, 04:34 PM
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#16
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Kalispell, Montana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireFly
He tried that. Don't you remember the dress she brought out as evidence?
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No, he was in denial mode from day 1.
He forcefully stated that he absoutely did not have any type of sexual contact with Lewinsky.
__________________
I am in love with Montana. For other states I have admiration, respect, recognition, even some affection, but with Montana it is love." - John Steinbeck
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08-19-2007, 04:50 PM
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#17
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lethbridge
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Wow - Cheney was right on the money in '94. Did he go senile in the meantime?
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08-19-2007, 06:12 PM
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#18
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan
Clinton's folly was the subject of so much coverage because of it's sexual nature...nothing more. His impeachment (thanks for the correction March Hare) was the result of him lying under oath...not receiving fellatio in the oval office.
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And this is the reason why Bush and his cabinet refuse to make statements under oath. Frankly, that in itself should be enough for any President to be tried and convicted of treason. The President takes an oath of office which states his commitment to the upholding of the Constitution of the United States and all the laws spurned by that document.
Clinton was impeached for lying about something personal in nature, not something covered under the auspices of the Constitution of the United States. Bush, and his cabinet, have made mulitple transgressions against the Constitution, the supreme law of the land and foundation of this great nation. Which is worse again? Lying so as not to do damange to your marriage, or lying which is a contravention to the oath of office you took as President? Need I remind you what Bush has done to Thomas Jefferson's masterpiece political frame work?
The Bill of Rights (Constitutional Amendments 1-10)
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Bush signed the Bipartisan Campaign Finance Reform bill, which severely restricts dissent. The law makes it a crime for non-profit advocacy groups simply to mutter the name of a national candidate within the last sixty days before a general election, a direct contravention against the first amendment.
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
The Patriot Act's "Sneak and Peak" provision allows the feds to come into your home, search your residence, and leave without telling you for up to six months. It has expanded the government’s powers under the Federal Intelligence Surveillance Act to get warrants for wiretaps from special courts, not subject to the same oversight as typical courts. Another provision allows the FBI to obtain library records from librarians, who have to keep their mouths shut about confrontations with officials. Since 9/11, law enforcers has visited America’s libraries "seeking September 11-related information about patron reading habits." The fourth amendment has become nothing more than fading ink on a 230 year old piece of parchment.
Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Shortly after September 11, the Immigration and Naturalization Service and Justice Department detained more than a thousand individuals, whom Bush labeled as "terrorists" even after the Justice Department admitted the detainees had no connection to terrorism. In addition, at least dozens of Americans were detained without due process of law because of a phony "material witness" status. That is without even discussing the incredible leaps law enforcement has made in asset seizure and forfiture. The fifth amendment is road pizza thanks to Bush.
Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.
Guantanamo Bay is the clearest and most troubling example of accused criminals detained without any of the benefits of an impartial trial with the due process spelled out in the Sixth Amendment. They do not receive the rights of war prisoners, nor of criminal defendants, because they fall under the makeshift category of "enemy combatant." Of course, Bush does not "accuse" these prisoners of being "enemy combatants" – because then they would have the rights of the "accused." He simply asserts they are "enemy combatants," and that settles that.
The assertion that Guantanamo is constitutional because it is located outside America is ludicrous and unsettling. It is ludicrous because the U.S. has jurisdiction there, and if the government can violate your liberties by moving you outside the country, the Bill of Rights is meaningless. It’s unsettling because it is an admission that the goings on in Guantanamo are even more oppressive than the run-of-the-mill Bill of Rights violations that Americans will tolerate at home. That doesn't even tap into Extreme Rendition and what it does to international law.
Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
George W. Bush has no conception of the inalienable, unenumerated rights of the American people. He has flouted the personal, intimate right to self-medication by closing down medical marijuana facilities. He has affronted the right to peaceful trade by establishing protectionist steel tariffs and imposing sanctions on other countries, most recently Syria. His administration has abrogated the right to travel with his no-fly list, which uses the pretext of fighting terrorism to prevent political dissidents and those with names similar to those of suspects from flying. On September 11, 2001, the federal government even impeded the right to emigrate by forbidding anyone from leaving the country. His Patriot Act made it a crime to carry significant amounts of cash on a plane. While the Bush administration assaults the liberties specifically spelled out in the Bill of Rights, it also punishes those who wish to relieve their pain from cancer, improve their lives with commerce, or quietly leave the country with their savings – all unwritten, essential rights that James Madison and Thomas Jefferson would be appalled to see so routinely eviscerated in America.
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
Almost every government abuse I mentioned qualifies as a violation of the Tenth Amendment. In addition to these violations, Bush has sharply increased farm subsidies, signing a record $190 billion dollar farm bill, and severely distorting domestic and international markets. He signed into law the largest expansion of Medicare since its inception, looting present and future taxpayers of hundreds of billions and maybe more than a trillion dollars in one of most shameless giveaways to preferred voters and business interests in decades. Aside from giving prescription drugs away free he has unleashed plans to build national surveillance systems to monitor "prescription drug abuse."
Bush has increased federal funding for education, welfare, foreign aid, local law enforcement, and "faith-based" initiatives, and he has developed programs to encourage marriages and to provide relationship counseling. Since Bush took office, the U.S. budget’s discretionary spending has increased about 28%. Through his "compassionate conservatism," George W. Bush has done more to advance the American welfare state than any other president in American history.
That's a pretty impressive run against the Bill of Rights, and direct trangressions against the document and foundation of our democracy that Bush promised to not only defend, but uphold, when he took his oath of office.
Last edited by Lanny_MacDonald; 08-19-2007 at 06:17 PM.
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08-19-2007, 06:15 PM
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#19
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Congress is contolled by democrats now. I'm sure if they could, they'd be trying to impeach Bush right now.
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Doubtful. What benefit would impeachment proceedings do except to uncover just how spineless the Democrats have been in preventing the Consitutional abuses that have gone on. Frankly, the Democrats should wait until the next election and if they win, quietly encourage another nation to pursue War Crimes charges against the Bush Administration. They could easily throw Bush under the bus, build an incredible amount of international credit for doing so, and put the screws to Dubya better than any impeachment ever would.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireFly
He tried that. Don't you remember the dress she brought out as evidence?
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Yes, interesting that someone would keep a cum stained dress in plastic wrap for months, and then suddenly produce it at the most opportune of times. Let me guess? Coincidence? Or is it more like a setup? Come on Heather, I think you're old enough and smart enough to read between the lines of that incident.
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08-19-2007, 07:03 PM
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#20
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Had an idea!
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What point would it be for the democrats to impeach Bush? Many of them voted in favor of what Bush wanted, so in theory, they are at fault too.
Besides, Bush is gone very soon...and I would rather have a Congress that works towards 'fixing' the problems...and starting fresh, instead of trying to make old wounds even worse.
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