Feds, province, police blamed in Ipperwash report

[RedHot25]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...531?hub=Canada

The final report of the Ipperwash Inquiry has found that the federal and Ontario governments, along with police, all share responsibility for the death of unarmed native protester Dudley George.

...

The 38-year-old was killed during a police raid to remove native protesters from Ipperwash Provincial Park on Sept. 6, 1995.

The protesters wanted nearby Camp Ipperwash, formerly the Stony Point reserve, to be returned to Kettle and Stony Point descendants.

The land had been taken by the government in 1942 and converted into a military training camp but was never returned. They also claimed that the Ipperwash Provincial Park was the site of a sacred burial ground.

Then-premier Mike Harris is also faulted in the report for impatience, uttering a racial slur and misleading the legislature.

However, Linden concluded that "the premier did not give instructions to or interfere with the OPP's operations at Ipperwash.

[RedHot25]

Harris responds....

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/...n.html?ref=rss

Harris made no reference to Linden's conclusion that the former premier did not tell the truth when he testified that he did not utter a racial slur in an informal government meeting just hours before George was fatally shot.

During the hearings, former Ontario attorney general Charles Harnick said he heard Harris say, "I want the f****** Indians out of the park" during a meeting with government officials to discuss the crisis. Harris told the inquiry that was "not the kind of language" he would use at any kind of meeting.

....

"I have found that both the former premier and the minister of natural resources made racist comments in what has become known as the dining room meeting, although both denied making these offensive comments," Linden told reporters on Thursday.

"These comments and the speed at which the premier wished to end the occupation created an atmosphere that unduly narrowed the scope of the government's response to the occupation," he said.

[calculoso]

"f****** Indians" is a racial slur??

[duncan]

what is missed, is a no longer existent tribe, invades a military base and provincial park, neighbours complain of gun shots, and the native militants confront the police, but the report places no blame on them. Harris is found to have lied to the press and his legistlature, and is said to have rushed the affair, but takes no responsibility. Natives on the land, and in the nearby reserve, admit the presence of weapons, on 'foreign natives', but the report denies there were weapons. The only fall guy...the cop who was there doing his job, and fired on what he felt was a threat to his life.

Compenstaion is paid to the George family, the Stony Point tribe, and the Stoney Point tribe ( of nearby Kettle Point, where the original inhabitants were moved), but not to the local land owners, whose property values have plummetted. Due to the episode, and the disgrace they have turned Ipperwash into (derilict vehicles, and old appliances left all over the place, as well as rotting buildings), these cottages are at less than half the value of ones less than 15 minutes away.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by calculoso

"f****** Indians" is a racial slur??

I can't believe you believe that, that's sick.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by duncan

The only fall guy...the cop who was there doing his job, and fired on what he felt was a threat to his life.

I don't want to gum this thread up with petty semantic quibbles, but I'd say the real fall guy here is the unarmed guy who fell down dead after he'd been shot by a sniper.

Originally Posted by duncan

these cottages are at less than half the value of ones less than 15 minutes away.

What a tragedy. Do you mean to tell me that these people, due to circumstances beyond their control, have lost 50% of the value of their summer homes due to some land claim issue? That is just terrible.

The Indians were lucky to get kicked off their land in the first place. At least they didn't have to suffer through the stress-inducing vagaries of an unpredictable real estate market and instead were just moved somewhere else so the military could take over.

[nubs]

I am sure the natives were just peacefully protesting. Ya right.
I dont know about anyone else but if i see the riot squad setting up in front of me throwing rocks is not on the top of my list of things to do. Approaching and getting aggressive with them is not up there either.
I am all for the right to protest but just as in the WTO riots all over the world blame should be assigned just as much to the people who dont get the "Peaceful" part in peaceful protest.
Natives need to start paying more attention to what their leaders and self appointed people in power are doing and less how the whites are out to get them next. By inciting their people to riot the greedy band leaders once again insured another big check at the expense of their own people. My opinion is that the free money more than any other issue has contributed most to the downfall of the native culture. The reserves are a breeding ground for the cult like atmosphere the bands continue to perpetuate. And their leaders just keep feeding them the kool-aid so they can keep cashing the cheques.
Enough is enough. All the special demands have been given into, all the money has been paid and yet time after time the bands screw up and blame everyone but themselves. It is time for them to join the rest of society in the 21 century. No more reserves no more special privledges its time to sink swim.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

The final report of the Ipperwash Inquiry has found that the federal and Ontario governments, along with police, all share responsibility for the death of unarmed native protester Dudley George.

But no blame for the natives that started the protest?

And unarmed native protester? I thought he, like the other protesters, was carrying a long stick around with him?

He had a weapon with him. It wasn't a gun mind you but that's why you don't bring a stick to a gunfight.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Do you mean to tell me that these people, due to circumstances beyond their control, have lost 50% of the value of their summer homes due to some land claim issue?

It's not due to a land claim issue. It's due to some natives who have no respect for the land or society.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

It's not due to a land claim issue. It's due to some natives who have no respect for the land or society.

Possibly. Although what I've read about the incident, those people wanted their land back, and that is why they were there. If you have evidence that they were in that particular spot because that is where the dart landed on a map the please, don't be afraid to share.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Possibly. Although what I've read about the incident, those people wanted their land back, and that is why they were there. If you have evidence that they were in that particular spot because that is where the dart landed on a map the please, don't be afraid to share.

There are land claims throughout the country. But not every piece of disputed land is turned into a place for natives to dump their cars and appliances.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

There are land claims throughout the country. But not every piece of disputed land is turned into a place for natives to dump their cars and appliances.

So it is about a land claim?

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I can't believe you believe that, that's sick.

Whatever. Is it insulting? Absolutely. It's the same as "@#$@#$ Americans" or "$##$@@# Europeans". Definitely insulting.

As for a racial slur though? Give me a break.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Whatever. Is it insulting? Absolutely. It's the same as "@#$@#$ Americans" or "$##$@@# Europeans". Definitely insulting.

As for a racial slur though? Give me a break.

"I want those !@#$%^& white people out of my store!".

Is that a racial slur?

[duncan]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Possibly. Although what I've read about the incident, those people wanted their land back, and that is why they were there. If you have evidence that they were in that particular spot because that is where the dart landed on a map the please, don't be afraid to share.

Okay, the land in question was a reserve for the Stony Point tribe, which no longer existed, and hadn't for more than 40 years. Of the natives involved, less than 10% had any actual claim to the land, most were from distant reserves, and several were members of a group that local natives call the 'Nation', that go from area to area, stirring up crap. The action was not supported by the elders of the actual reserve (Kettle Point) that still exists 5 miles south of there. The Military allowed them to take the base back, even helping with some electrical issues, but the group then decided they wanted the attached provincial park as well. The 'Nation' has been involved in Oka, Caledonia and Miramichi, and were known to be armed radicals. Since Ipperwash, the natives have laid claim to Sarnia's chemical valley, Wasaga Beach, and all waters of Lake Huron. In August of 2006, they blocked the sinking of a clean ship, 45 miles from any reserve, because Lake Huron is their sacred ground, and they should have been consulted earlier (bought off). A couple years earlier, they put a claim on Grand Bend beach, merely for parking revenue. In Northern Ontario, they ousted several cottagers, because their properties were along the lake that they had laid claim to. The cottagers, who had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars, in legal transactions, were given 12 hours to vacate their dream homes, with no opportunity to return.
There have been no homes erected on this disputed land, in the 13 plus years since they stormed in. The buildings that were there, are in disrepair, there are old cars, and appliances dumped all over the place. Dudley George's trailer is rotting to the ground. The legal owners of surrounding property; farmers, cottagers, and retirees, have seen their property values plummet, because of the incident, and continuous issues. These same claims are happening all over Ontario, New Brunswick, and BC. Alberta will be next, there is alot of valuable property there. In Caledonia, they laid claim to a new subdivision, after an investor had sunk millions into it. Imagine your subdivision is the next one, you build your dream home, spend your life savings, and bye bye, out you go with nothing.

As far as the weapons, members of the Kettle Point tribe have reported that members of the Nation were armed. Neighbours of the base reported shots fired. Dudley George was not armed, and I am not making lite of his death, but the invaders of the Military base should also take some blame for it. Kenneth Deane was not an OPP sniper, but a uniformed Acting Sgt. THere were reports of weapons, and the officers had theirs drawn, and the natives instigated aggression, because dressed riot police were present. I know Oficers that were present, and I know natives that were as well, and it was a scary environment for both.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Whatever. Is it insulting? Absolutely. It's the same as "@#$@#$ Americans" or "$##$@@# Europeans". Definitely insulting.

As for a racial slur though? Give me a break.

I can't believe you casually demean an entire race and I take it personally. You're one sick puppy.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I can't believe you casually demean an entire race and I take it personally. You're one sick puppy.

And you're overly sensitive.

"I want those !@#$%^& white people out of my store!".

Is that a racial slur?

Not in my book. Are they white people? Yes. Are they being called monkeys or some other way? No.

I suppose it comes down to my interpretation of the word "slur". Would I consider myself being slurred when referred to as a "sick puppy"? No. By the definition, is it a slur? Yeah I suppose it is, but to me "racial slurs" are reserved for the worst of the worst. Swearing at someone doesn't fit that category IMO.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I can't believe you casually demean an entire race and I take it personally. You're one sick puppy.

Im curious as to how you see that statement as "demeaning" an entire race...by calling them "indians", or by swearing in front of the name of the race in question?

I can hardly be offended if someone says a "bunch of *%#@*&$ white people did ________". Is that somehow a racial slur? Im just not sure I understand how this would be racist in the least?

Is calling a black person....black...racist?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by calculoso

And you're overly sensitive.



Swearing at someone doesn't fit that category IMO.

Well, you're not swearing at someone, you're swearing at a whole race. There is a big difference. As for me being overly sensitive, that's a laugh. I've worked in construction for many years and give as good as I take but when you swear at a whole race, you're swearing at kids too, and they don't need that.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Well, you're not swearing at someone, you're swearing at a whole race. There is a big difference. As for me being overly sensitive, that's a laugh. I've worked in construction for many years and give as good as I take but when you swear at a whole race, you're swearing at kids too, and they don't need that.

No he was swearing at the particular indians that were in the park not the whole race.

It is not racist and I don't even think it is all that offensive in any way other than to people who are over sensitive about swearing.