I just got fired... was it legal?

[iggypop]

To all you HR gurus, and "part-time" lawyers (and real ones too), I have a question for you all.

So here’s the situation. I have been working outside at a golf course for about a month now. Last Tuesday I worked from 6am-3pm, right before all that rain hit. Wednesday morning rolled around and I was scheduled to work at 6 am again. When I woke up it was not raining at all, and I assumed I would have to work; as I was not phoned to not come in, nor told to call and check whether I should come in (I could not call and check either because they don’t answer the phones until 6:15, and I didn’t want to risk being late to call). When I got to work as scheduled I was immediately sent home. Today I wanted to make sure I was going to get paid for 3 hours, as required by law, for my time last Wednesday. My boss then proceeded to tell me that that’s not their policy and I will not get paid anything. I argued with him for a bit, and finally he sent me home early today but said I would be paid for last Wednesday. He then phoned me about an hour later, claiming that in fact he was in the right because it was "clearly stated in their employee manual that I was to phone in and see if I am needed when the whether is marginal." He then went onto say "but ok we will pay you, but your fired."

Basically as I see it, I’m getting fired because I wasn’t sure what to do, so I figured when in doubt I should show up for my shift.. Funny thing is though, I had no idea this "employee manual" existed, I was never presented it when I started working, so again I had no idea how to handle the situation when I thought it was going to start raining.

Anyways, legally was this misunderstanding grounds for termination? Also, aren’t I right, aren’t I supposed to be paid 3 hours at minimum wage if even if I don’t work at all?

Sorry for the lengthy post, I'm just a little rattled after getting canned today.

[JBR]

I would contact the Alberta Labor Board. It sounds like you have a case. Were you given a specific reason for your dismissal?

[Tron_fdc]

Ask him for the employee manual with your signature showing you read it. All our required reading at our shop has to be signed off, and if it isn't it's treated as unread.

[troutman]

I think you can generally be dismissed within your first three months without notice (probation period).

http://employment.alberta.ca/cps/rde....xsl/1474.html

Neither the employer nor employee has a statutory obligation to give notice of termination during the first three months of employment. This is consistent with industry practice that generally treats the first three months of employment as a probationary period.

[STeeLy]

I'm not in the HR department nor am I a lawyer in anyway.

I think that if you work any amount of time less than 3 hours, u're still entitled to 3 hours of pay. But u went in and didn't work, I have no idea what the case there is.

however, because THEY did not give u the employee manual and you had no idea it existed, it is then their fault, not ur's, that u did not know what course of action to take in the given situation.

[ricoFlame]

Originally Posted by iggypop

To all you HR gurus, and "part-time" lawyers (and real ones too), I have a question for you all.

So here’s the situation. I have been working outside at a golf course for about a month now. Last Tuesday I worked from 6am-3pm, right before all that rain hit. Wednesday morning rolled around and I was scheduled to work at 6 am again. When I woke up it was not raining at all, and I assumed I would have to work; as I was not phoned to not come in, nor told to call and check whether I should come in (I could not call and check either because they don’t answer the phones until 6:15, and I didn’t want to risk being late to call). When I got to work as scheduled I was immediately sent home. Today I wanted to make sure I was going to get paid for 3 hours, as required by law, for my time last Wednesday. My boss then proceeded to tell me that that’s not their policy and I will not get paid anything. I argued with him for a bit, and finally he sent me home early today but said I would be paid for last Wednesday. He then phoned me about an hour later, claiming that in fact he was in the right because it was "clearly stated in their employee manual that I was to phone in and see if I am needed when the whether is marginal." He then went onto say "but ok we will pay you, but your fired."

Basically as I see it, I’m getting fired because I wasn’t sure what to do, so I figured when in doubt I should show up for my shift.. Funny thing is though, I had no idea this "employee manual" existed, I was never presented it when I started working, so again I had no idea how to handle the situation when I thought it was going to start raining.

Anyways, legally was this misunderstanding grounds for termination? Also, aren’t I right, aren’t I supposed to be paid 3 hours at minimum wage if even if I don’t work at all?

Sorry for the lengthy post, I'm just a little rattled after getting canned today.

wow man, i've worked in the turf industry for 8 years and i've never heard of employers acting like that...you are 100% right, and should NEVER have to request to be payed for the three hours it should be mandatory. if you showed up for work, you are entitled to three hours, and like mentioned in an above post, if it ain't signed, they have no proof that you've read it. They can't make up rules and bend labour laws to their convenience.

[Burninator]

Yeah what Troutman said. Legally I think they can just fire you without any reason/notice within the first three months. And you can quite without notice in the first three months.

Sorry to hear about your job. What a lame reason to fire someone.

[underGRADFlame]

Your spot on about the 3 hrs pay. As for being fired, they can let you go without cause for the first 3 months. Your ex boss sounds like a royal @ss though...

[CaptainCrunch]

So let me get this straight

You showed up even though you hadn't called in, you were sent home and then fired. He decided that he originally didn't need to pay you, and then did.

Then they let you go because you hadn't read the policy book.

Wow, the ony thing that wrecks you is that you've only been there for less then three months.

Consult the labour board, but I don't think there's much that they can do.

[CaptainCrunch]

They do owe you the three hours, unless you didn't call in and because of that you weren't told not to come in. If thats the case, then your not entitled just because you showed up.

The one drawback of a whats considered a casual job.

[iggypop]

Originally Posted by ricoFlame

wow man, i've worked in the turf industry for 8 years and i've never heard of employers acting like that...you are 100% right, and should NEVER have to request to be payed for the three hours it should be mandatory. if you showed up for work, you are entitled to three hours, and like mentioned in an above post, if it ain't signed, they have no proof that you've read it. They can't make up rules and bend labour laws to their convenience.

Yeah Ive never had an employer act like this either. Its really easy to tell hes not someone I want to work for anyway if this is how he is going to handle a little misunderstanding in such an extreme fashion. Whats funny was I think the exact way he stated it was "I was actually in the right, because as it was clearly stated in your employee manual, which you obivously didnt read, you are required to call in when the weather is marginal."

Haha of course I didnt read it, I was never presented it, or had any idea it existed.

[FlamesPuck12]

Hmm I was learning about this topic in CALM course in my high school last week and I never thought I'd see a day when those CALM courses would be useful.

Originally Posted by troutman

I think you can generally be dismissed within your first three months without notice (probation period).

http://employment.alberta.ca/cps/rde....xsl/1474.html

I'm pretty sure that is just the notification that is required when you terminate someone. I think that is refering to the law that states first 3 month on the job, they can fire you on the spot but after 3 month, 1 week notice must be given before firing someone.

I don't think that means they can fire you for following the law. The law states that even if you show up to work on your shift, they must pay you 3hours of your pay no matter what. Since you didn't receive any manual to explain when you should not show up to your work, I think it was right to show up to work.

Like JBR said, I'd contact the Alberta Labor Board because you were fired for following that policy which states that 3 hours of wage must be given when a employee shows up to his work.

[BlackArcher101]

You may want to further investigate this portion, found in the document located at http://employment.alberta.ca/documen...S-FI_esfs4.pdf

"Does the Code prohibit an employer from terminating an employee for certain reasons?
Yes. An employer may not terminate an employee’s employment because:
- the employee requested or demanded anything to which the employee is entitled under the Code"

Normally though an employer can terminate your employment for ANY reason (very few exceptions) when in the 3 month probationary period.

Your termination may be valid or invalid based on my above quote. It says that if you were fired for demanding something you were entiteld to, then the termination isn't allowed. An iffy one for sure.

Having said all that, I'd say you are definetely entitled to your 3 hours pay since they have no proof of you agreeing to the policy.

[CaptainCrunch]

The employer can certainly defend against paying by stating that you didn't call in, so they couldn't tell you to stay at home because you weren't needed, so its irrelevant that you showed up.

That is a loophole in seasonal employment.

consult the labour board, but I don't think your truly entitled under these circumstances.

but we've been wrong before.

[iggypop]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The employer can certainly defend against paying by stating that you didn't call in, so they couldn't tell you to stay at home because you weren't needed, so its irrelevant that you showed up.


but we've been wrong before.

Ok, but again I was never told I needed to call in and check first. Also to call in I needed to wait 15 minutes after I was already scheduled start working, before anyone would answer the phones. So basically I figured when in doubt the best thing to do was show up for my shift! I mean they can fire me for any reason within 3 months, so how do I know they wouldn't fire me for being 20 minutes late that day, if I wanted to call in and they said they needed me.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

You may want to further investigate this portion, found in the document located at http://employment.alberta.ca/documen...S-FI_esfs4.pdf

"Does the Code prohibit an employer from terminating an employee for certain reasons?
Yes. An employer may not terminate an employee’s employment because:
- the employee requested or demanded anything to which the employee is entitled under the Code"

Normally though an employer can terminate your employment for ANY reason (very few exceptions) when in the 3 month probationary period.

Your termination may be valid or invalid based on my above quote. It says that if you were fired for demanding something you were entiteld to, then the termination isn't allowed. An iffy one for sure.

Having said all that, I'd say you are definetely entitled to your 3 hours pay since they have no proof of you agreeing to the policy.

there's a billion and one different reasons they could have decided to fire him. probably pretty easy for his employer to pull one outta his ass and bs it therefore not worth getting the labour board involved. with the amount of jobs that are available these days and the fact that you had just started there and its just groundskeeping at a golf course, i'd just laugh it off and go find somewhere else to work.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The employer can certainly defend against paying by stating that you didn't call in, so they couldn't tell you to stay at home because you weren't needed, so its irrelevant that you showed up.

That is a loophole in seasonal employment.

consult the labour board, but I don't think your truly entitled under these circumstances.

but we've been wrong before.

As a few people have said, I think he is entitled to.
The course has no way of showing that he was informed that the policy is to phone to find out if you are working. He didn't know of the employee manual and they have no way of proving that he did. He did what he thought was right (show up) and for this he probably should be entitled to the 3 hours. It then appears that he was fired for asking for something that he was entitled to so I think he has a case in both regards.

However, is it really worth it? he got his three hours and he probably doesn't want to work for this guy, and it's not like there is a shortage of these types of jobs anyway.

But I'd say that he might as well go ahead and put in a complaint just to make a hastle for the guy who fired him.

[kipperfan]

But I'd say that he might as well go ahead and put in a complaint just to make a hastle for the guy who fired him.

Or just slash his tires, one of the two.

[Vulcan]

It's crap like this that causes employees to form unions.

[flip]

as a boss (and im 22) i can relate to both sides in this one. because im not far removed from being not the boss.

from what i know:
should you get three hours pay?

as far as the three hours goes you're screwed. if you didn't work at all then you don't get paid. if you clocked in for even a minute you have an argument but just because you showed up is not their fault. its just a lack of communication. it would have been your responsibility upon getting hired to ask them how it works if you show up and then get sent home. sorry but i support them on this one. sorry you had to show up but you didn't actually do any work, and you knew the deal when you started: if its raining you don't work, if you don't work you don't get paid.

can they fire you?

yes. under any circumstances. if its the first three months, they don't have to give you notice, nor an explanation (this one is always my fav when firing people because its easier not because i enjoy it more). they can essentially be like get the **** out you're fired and you have to leave right then and there no questions asked. and no i don't actually say this to my employees, its called hyperbole.

if its after 3 months they can fire you for ANY reason. the only difference is that if they have documented cause then you get no sevrance (sp?) pay.

if they have no cause to fire you (which in this case they don't, although i am to beieve you were in your 3 months) then all they have to give you is two weeks pay. so if you don't work very much you are screwed.

i am guessing that because of the 3 hours argument they want to let you go because now you sound like a trouble maker and don't want you going to the labour board after your 3 months when you have some backup.


EDITED: to avoid the confusion that i am a bad boss and the subsequent discussion of me being a bad boss