Why Does MM Hate America?

[flames_1987]

Just before election week this movie came out and I thought I'd give it a fair shot. I don't know if its showing in Canada but I was gonna try and see some of it however I could. Everyone is entitled to there POV and its always good to see the other side.

However after watching a few guys review this on tv I had to say something. In the movie this guy says that the facts are facts and Canada has a higher crime rate then America. No BS, the guy comes out and says this.

Excuse Me While I Puke. Sorry to start a thread on election night just thought it was worthy

[Daradon]

Canada has a higher crime rate? Or a higher rate based on reported crime and/or convicted crime?

I have never heard anyone say that the U.S. was safer... On either side of the border... We certainly don't have the same level of violent crime, nor do we have the same percentage of people in our jail system.

[flames_1987]

Originally posted by Daradon@Nov 3 2004, 05:30 AM
Canada has a higher crime rate? Or a higher rate based on reported crime and/or convicted crime?

I have never heard anyone say that the U.S. was safer... On either side of the border... We certainly don't have the same level of violent crime, nor do we have the same percentage of people in our jail system.

never caught which fact he used just got this off that Ebert and what not show. Anyways it sounds like the guy painted Canada to be just as bad as the States.

[calf]

Maybe I can't read, but which movie are you talking about?

[Daradon]

And by MM I assume you mean Michael Moore. I don't think he hates his country, I think that's labelling and propaganda. Wanting to make your country better is not hating it. Speaking out against the government is not hating your country. Maybe he's not right, maybe he bends the truth to his advantage, but people all over in all situations do that including those running the country. Do they hate their country?

[MrMastodonFarm]

What movie came out before the election week?

I'm pretty sure F911 has been out for some time.

[flames_1987]

Originally posted by calf@Nov 3 2004, 05:33 AM
Maybe I can't read, but which movie are you talking about?

Why Michael Moore Hates America

[calf]

Originally posted by flames_1987+Nov 2 2004, 11:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (flames_1987 @ Nov 2 2004, 11:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-calf@Nov 3 2004, 05:33 AM
Maybe I can't read, but which movie are you talking about?

Why Michael Moore Hates America [/b][/quote]
oh, ok...I hadn't heard about it. Thanks for clearing it up!

Who made it?

[Daradon]

Originally posted by flames_1987+Nov 2 2004, 11:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (flames_1987 @ Nov 2 2004, 11:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Daradon@Nov 3 2004, 05:30 AM
Canada has a higher crime rate? Or a higher rate based on reported crime and/or convicted crime?

I have never heard anyone say that the U.S. was safer... On either side of the border... We certainly don't have the same level of violent crime, nor do we have the same percentage of people in our jail system.

never caught which fact he used just got this off that Ebert and what not show. Anyways it sounds like the guy painted Canada to be just as bad as the States. [/b][/quote]
And your believing a movie critics opinion over a moviemakers opinion?

Both are probably just that, opinions. Neither of those guys work in politics or in the police system. Facts need a bit more digging to find I would imagine.

[flames_1987]

Originally posted by Daradon+Nov 3 2004, 05:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Daradon @ Nov 3 2004, 05:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

never caught which fact he used just got this off that Ebert and what not show. Anyways it sounds like the guy painted Canada to be just as bad as the States.

And your believing a movie critics opinion over a moviemakers opinion?

Both are probably just that, opinions. Neither of those guys work in politics or in the police system. Facts need a bit more digging to find I would imagine. [/b][/quote]
Actually they both rated it with 2 thumbs up they just mentioned this Canadian Stat and said theres no way this was true.

[Daradon]

Originally posted by flames_1987+Nov 2 2004, 11:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (flames_1987 @ Nov 2 2004, 11:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

And your believing a movie critics opinion over a moviemakers opinion?

Both are probably just that, opinions. Neither of those guys work in politics or in the police system. Facts need a bit more digging to find I would imagine.

Actually they both rated it with 2 thumbs up they just mentioned this Canadian Stat and said theres no way this was true. [/b][/quote]
Lol, so Ebert and Roper are now the voice of reason?

[flames_1987]

I'm not sure it was voice of reason or telling me what to think of the movie just a simple line from the movie.

[moon]

Originally posted by Daradon+Nov 2 2004, 10:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Daradon @ Nov 2 2004, 10:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Actually they both rated it with 2 thumbs up they just mentioned this Canadian Stat and said theres no way this was true.

Lol, so Ebert and Roper are now the voice of reason? [/b][/quote]
More so than Michael Moore.

[Daradon]

Originally posted by flames_1987@Nov 2 2004, 11:43 PM
I'm not sure it was voice of reason or telling me what to think of the movie just a simple line from the movie.

Oh, ok, I misunderstood, it was a line from the movie.

Well then this next comment is for you too moon. As biased and sneaky as Michael Moore may be, I would think that a movie ACTUALLY titled: 'Why Michael Moore hates America', might have a bit more propaganda and spin in it than even F911.

Though I haven't seen the movie, so I can't say for sure. But I'll look for it now.

[RougeUnderoos]

I've got a neato little book called "The Economist Pocket World in Figures 2003 Edition".

It's got some figures in it --

Serious Assault
No. per 100,000 population 1999
(Crime statistics are based on offences recorded by the police. The number will therefore depend partly on the efficiency of police administration systems, definition of offences, and the proportion of crimes reported, and therefore may not be strictly comparable)

1. Australia 708.5
15. Canada 140.2
USA doesn't show up in the top 20 and it only goes to 20

Theft -- No. per 100,000 population
1. Denmark -- 7687.6
5. Canada -- 3968.9
USA does not show up in top 20 and it only....


Like it says, they may not be comparable numbers. The book does say that Yanks have about 2.1 million people behind bars (600k more than China). They aren't all there for pot posession so make of this what you will.

I've never even heard of the movie you are talking about it, but the old cliché "you can make statistics say anything" probably applies to his research.

[Daradon]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos@Nov 2 2004, 11:50 PM
I've got a neato little book called "The Economist Pocket World in Figures 2003 Edition".

It's got some figures in it --

Serious Assault
No. per 100,000 population 1999
(Crime statistics are based on offences recorded by the police. The number will therefore depend partly on the efficiency of police administration systems, definition of offences, and the proportion of crimes reported, and therefore may not be strictly comparable)

1. Australia 708.5
15. Canada 140.2
USA doesn't show up in the top 20 and it only goes to 20

Theft -- No. per 100,000 population
1. Denmark -- 7687.6
5. Canada -- 3968.9
USA does not show up in top 20 and it only....


Like it says, they may not be comparable numbers. The book does say that Yanks have about 2.1 million people behind bars (600k more than China). They aren't all there for pot posession so make of this what you will.

I've never even heard of the movie you are talking about it, but the old cliché "you can make statistics say anything" probably applies to his research.

That's exactly what I'm saying 'offences recorded'. I saw you present this before. (or someone else on this board) That's hardly indicitive of actual crime rates OR overall safety.

[Hack&Lube]

Ebert's often conceded the propaganda and fact-bending nature of Moore movies, but gives them thumbs up based on overall purpose.

[nfotiu]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos@Nov 3 2004, 05:50 AM
I've got a neato little book called "The Economist Pocket World in Figures 2003 Edition".

It's got some figures in it --

Serious Assault
No. per 100,000 population 1999
(Crime statistics are based on offences recorded by the police. The number will therefore depend partly on the efficiency of police administration systems, definition of offences, and the proportion of crimes reported, and therefore may not be strictly comparable)

1. Australia 708.5
15. Canada 140.2
USA doesn't show up in the top 20 and it only goes to 20

Theft -- No. per 100,000 population
1. Denmark -- 7687.6
5. Canada -- 3968.9
USA does not show up in top 20 and it only....


Like it says, they may not be comparable numbers. The book does say that Yanks have about 2.1 million people behind bars (600k more than China). They aren't all there for pot posession so make of this what you will.

I've never even heard of the movie you are talking about it, but the old cliché "you can make statistics say anything" probably applies to his research.

According to this, America had 523 violent crimes per 100,000 people in 1999.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/03cius.htm

[nfotiu]

In 2003, US's murder rate was 3 times Canada's
http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1...M8&refer=canada