Enviromentaloonies.......

[HOZ]

Just remember...you are doomed!!! Eco-psychos on the loose!!!

How trees might not be green in carbon offsetting debate

· Planting may worsen warming, say scientists
· Environmental gestures 'useless' outside tropics
Yes it is getting out of control!! We are destroying the world by planting trees!!

Read down to the alternatives....

Replacing CO2-producing energy with human energy technologies ... a project in India has replaced diesel pumps with people-operated pumps for irrigation.

Don't want to poop on the parade but I would surmise that the labour was cheaper than the diesel. And is human labour now a technology????

Maybe the wind farms are human tech stuff too!!!

[Sparks]

Liberal conspiracy!!! Bold!!! Italics!!! Exclamation marks!!! Purple exclamation marks!!!


Funny picture!!! Look at that moose! He has sunglasses on! Haha sunglasses!!!

[Stranger]

Listen closely and you can hear the world taking a giant step backwards.

How can planting a tree be bad?

[Sparks]

OK, according to the article, the authors of one study say:

- Trees planted above a certain latitude may contain heat, instead of reflect it (as snow does)
- A computer model suggests that large amounts of trees in these particular areas may raise the average temperature in those areas by 3 degrees C

In other words, we should consider where we are planting trees, if further studies come to the same conclusion. Also, your article points out that we should focus on cutting down our CO2 emissions, instead of thinking that planting trees will give us a free pass to continue polluting at the same rate.

It's an interesting article, but I don't understand what your point is, or why it's worth starting yet another snide, sarcastic thread over.

[Rathji]

Replacing CO2-producing energy with human energy technologies ... a project in India has replaced diesel pumps with people-operated pumps for irrigation.

I think the true irony lies in the fact that humans also produce CO2 and probably more of it than they normally do if they are working hard. I wonder how many people are required to duplicate the energy of a desiel engine, and exactly how much extra CO2 they are producing. I doubt it would match the engine by any means, but it sure would be funny if it did.

[Burninator]

I think this thread was posted earlier.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...ighlight=trees

People don't quite get the point of the article and the strudy, here was my post from the previous thread.

Dr Bala and his colleague, Ken Caldeira of the department of global ecology at the Carneige Institute in Standford, used a computer model to show that, outside a thin band around the equator, forests end up trapping more heat than they help to get rid of through a cut in carbon dioxide. Planting trees above 50 degrees latitude - the equivalent of Scandinavia or Siberia in the northern hemisphere - can also cover up tundra normally blanketed in heat-reflecting snow.

Quote:
Dr Caldeira warned that chopping down trees outside the tropics was not a good idea. "Preservation of ecosystems is a primary goal of preventing global warming, and the destruction of ecosystems to prevent global warming would be a counterproductive and perverse strategy."

Dr Bala added: "Apart from their role in altering the planet's climate, forests are valuable in many other aspects. Forests provide natural habitat to plants and animals, preserve the biodiversity, produce economically valuable timber and firewood, protect watersheds and indirectly prevent ocean acidification."

Seemed like what the study showed was that planting trees outside of their natural habitat was bad for the environment. And countries that are doing this are doing it for the carbon credits, which lots of people on this board are not a fan of the Kyoto plan anyway, because it wasn't thought through enough. As is the case here.

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Just remember...you are doomed!!! Eco-psychos on the loose!!!

How trees might not be green in carbon offsetting debate

· Planting may worsen warming, say scientists
· Environmental gestures 'useless' outside tropics
Yes it is getting out of control!! We are destroying the world by planting trees!!

Read down to the alternatives....

Replacing CO2-producing energy with human energy technologies ... a project in India has replaced diesel pumps with people-operated pumps for irrigation.

Don't want to poop on the parade but I would surmise that the labour was cheaper than the diesel. And is human labour now a technology????

Maybe the wind farms are human tech stuff too!!!

I hope you have a flame ######ant jacket cause you about to get nasty flamed. Gots to love people powered power in India. That seems like an excellent idea, lets round up all the homeless and people on EI and get them to manaully run power for the rest of us. Please.

MYK

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

I hope you have a flame ######ant jacket cause you about to get nasty flamed. Gots to love people powered power in India. That seems like an excellent idea, lets round up all the homeless and people on EI and get them to manaully run power for the rest of us. Please.

MYK

Did you actually look into the concept, or are you just shooting off your mouth here? Who said anything about rounding up homeless people?

http://www.climatecare.org/projects/.../human-energy/

The treadle pump is a simple device which uses human power to pump water from wells, streams and lakes. One person - man, woman or even child - can operate the pump by manipulating his/her body weight on two treadles and by holding a bamboo or wooden frame for support. These pumps displace the diesel pumps that are more commonly used.
Benefits

• Replaces polluting diesel-powered pumps
• Allows 2 or 3 harvests a year, instead of 1
• Prevents farmers having to leave their families to work in the city during 'off season'
• Farmers' income increases, often between two and five-fold

I don't think anyone is saying 'to solve global warming people have to get on a treadmill like hamsters to generate power', its about finding new ways to do old things... like developing this type of pump. Sometimes you have to look into a topic before you can really say anything about it... otherwise you end up looking like an ass... like HOZ.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Did you actually look into the concept, or are you just shooting off your mouth here? Who said anything about rounding up homeless people?

http://www.climatecare.org/projects/.../human-energy/

The treadle pump is a simple device which uses human power to pump water from wells, streams and lakes. One person - man, woman or even child - can operate the pump by manipulating his/her body weight on two treadles and by holding a bamboo or wooden frame for support. These pumps displace the diesel pumps that are more commonly used.
Benefits

• Replaces polluting diesel-powered pumps
• Allows 2 or 3 harvests a year, instead of 1
• Prevents farmers having to leave their families to work in the city during 'off season'
• Farmers' income increases, often between two and five-fold

I don't think anyone is saying 'to solve global warming people have to get on a treadmill like hamsters to generate power', its about finding new ways to do old things... like developing this type of pump. Sometimes you have to look into a topic before you can really say anything about it... otherwise you end up looking like an ass... like HOZ.

Good post. I guess the critiques of different thinking don't like change? Perhaps they preffered the stone age, been a lot of change since then. Don't think their computers would run so great but maybe those geniuses know a way.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Did you actually look into the concept, or are you just shooting off your mouth here? Who said anything about rounding up homeless people?

http://www.climatecare.org/projects/.../human-energy/

The treadle pump is a simple device which uses human power to pump water from wells, streams and lakes. One person - man, woman or even child - can operate the pump by manipulating his/her body weight on two treadles and by holding a bamboo or wooden frame for support. These pumps displace the diesel pumps that are more commonly used.
Benefits

• Replaces polluting diesel-powered pumps
• Allows 2 or 3 harvests a year, instead of 1
• Prevents farmers having to leave their families to work in the city during 'off season'
• Farmers' income increases, often between two and five-fold

I don't think anyone is saying 'to solve global warming people have to get on a treadmill like hamsters to generate power', its about finding new ways to do old things... like developing this type of pump. Sometimes you have to look into a topic before you can really say anything about it... otherwise you end up looking like an ass... like HOZ.

Or we could just love old technology and give it a new trendy name. I mean logic is really not your strong point.

Machines were invented to free up labour. Now we are to reverse that. Great. Only one other country with such a multitude of cheap labour to draw from as India has.

But some how were are to believe that.....since it is now human labour instead of deisel pump-power, they now have more harvests? Hmmm... how did that come about? (Skip the historical facts : Machine power > human power = more food)

Now if the labour is cheaper and therefore these communities can afford to have this (like I said the labour was cheaper than the deisel) then I can see this happening. Not because we changed from deisel engine to labour but because more communities can have that all new technology called "irrigation". And because they can have irrigation they can have more more harvests and therefore their income improves.

By all means let us all go back to grinding our own wheat for our bread.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by HOZ

But some how were are to believe that.....since it is now human labour instead of deisel pump-power, they now have more harvests? Hmmm... how did that come about? (Skip the historical facts : Machine power > human power = more food)

I don't know, maybe the diesel fuel is too expensive or maybe it's not readily available?

Another historical fact is that human power is better than machine power when the machine doesn't have any fuel. If I really need to get somewhere I'd rather ride my back than sit in a car that doesn't have any gas.

[evman150]

The article is not saying trees are bad for the environment.

It is saying that trees can, in some environs, lower the albedo of the earth, resulting in warming.

This is a rather obvious truth.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I don't know, maybe the diesel fuel is too expensive or maybe it's not readily available?

Another historical fact is that human power is better than machine power when the machine doesn't have any fuel. If I really need to get somewhere I'd rather ride my back than sit in a car that doesn't have any gas.

Did you miss this part??? Or purposely ignore it?

Now if the labour is cheaper and therefore these communities can afford to have this (like I said the labour was cheaper than the deisel) then I can see this happening. Not because we changed from deisel engine to labour but because more communities can have that all new technology called "irrigation". And because they can have irrigation they can have more more harvests and therefore their income improves.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Did you miss this part??? Or purposely ignore it?

Interesting thing for you to say here... several posters have refuted your understanding of the article and its implications... not ready to address those yet? Or did you purposely ignore them?

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Or we could just love old technology and give it a new trendy name. I mean logic is really not your strong point.

So... thats honestly what you think is happening here? A bunch of people are duping themselves into using antiquated technology... why? The farmers certainly aren't doing it to reduce their emissions, they're doing it to grow more food and make more money. How does your logic dictate they should use a less efficient way to irrigate? Seems to me that your 'logic' is basically what I would call your 'point of view', don't get the two mixed up.

Machines were invented to free up labour. Now we are to reverse that. Great. Only one other country with such a multitude of cheap labour to draw from as India has.

You're taking a single concept and applying it in a way that doesn't make sense. Treadle pumps are more efficient and help the farmers make more money than Deisel pumps. Do you have a different point to make here on this? Why are you turning this into some anti-technology debate... this is a single-issue concept here (the Treadle Pump)... care to actually adress the particular example you brought up in the first place? No?

But some how were are to believe that.....since it is now human labour instead of deisel pump-power, they now have more harvests? Hmmm... how did that come about? (Skip the historical facts : Machine power > human power = more food)

Apparently also skip the link I posted... again, we're talking about a specific issue here (Treadle Pumps), not technology vs. human labour around the world. Try to differentiate the two. No one here has said that human labour should be used in every case possible where a machine currently works... no idea where you're getting that from... you've essentially made up that side of the argument, then rail against it... I don't see the point. No one here is defending the introduction of Flinstone-style cars, but from the way you're talking, you're the last man standing against them.

Now if the labour is cheaper and therefore these communities can afford to have this (like I said the labour was cheaper than the deisel) then I can see this happening. Not because we changed from deisel engine to labour but because more communities can have that all new technology called "irrigation". And because they can have irrigation they can have more more harvests and therefore their income improves.

Well... the link says going from Deisel pumps to Treadle pumps increased efficiency and production, and allowed the farmers to stay at home rather than work in the cities... sounds like a good deal to me. If the site is wrong, go ahead show us something to back it up.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Interesting thing for you to say here... several posters have refuted your understanding of the article and its implications... not ready to address those yet? Or did you purposely ignore them?

Yeah.....sure. They refuted my understanding that the ecoloonies are out of control and there are people willing to beleive in any snake-oil salesman...err scientist that comes along with a new and improved theory? SO I guess we should start clear cutting again in Canada? But then they say cutting down trees are bad. I thought trees were bad?

Well all I know one thing for sure is that I am going to invest in a new found business that the Goracle has. Just too many suckers out there not to!

Planting trees to neutralise carbon emissions has become a big business: £60m worth of trees have been bought this year, up from £20m in 2005. By 2010 the market is expected to reach £300m.

[Agamemnon]

Also on Treadle Pumps and why they're being instituted in SE Asia over diesel pumps (ie more Environmentaloonyism);

http://www.ashdenawards.org/winners/idei

http://www.iwmi.cgiar.org/respages/PGW/treadle.htm

http://www.ide-india.org/ide/treadlepump.shtml

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Also on Treadle Pumps and why they're being instituted in SE Asia over diesel pumps (ie more Environmentaloonyism);

SIGH: Because they are cheap. If they were not cheap they would not be used.

treadle pump is an ideal investment for small land holders whose savings are as small as $12 to $15.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by HOZ

SIGH: Because they are cheap. If they were not cheap they would not be used.

treadle pump is an ideal investment for small land holders whose savings are as small as $12 to $15.

Exactly. The farmer has to pay for the fuel and pay for/rent the pump. Sure the Treadle Pump is cheap... thats called a 'benefit'.

By going to the Treadle Pump the farmer has 3 crops a year instead of 1, the farmer stays at home farming rather than seasonally working in the cities, and his income goes up 2 - 5 times.

So tell me why relying on 'human technologies' in this case is so obviously wrong and stupid, as you imply repeatedly above?