Bill O'Rielly vs Geraldo Rivera as they shout at each other

[Ha Ha Stupid Oilers]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7e5_1175912496

[Displaced Flames fan]

I haven't seen this yet, but it is interesting because the two are actually quite fond of one another from what I've heard.

[Displaced Flames fan]

They both have great points, but Bill refuses to acknowledge what Geraldo is talking about.

[JimmytheT]

Bill O'Reilly, the master of obscuring a story by shoe-horning his views into something where it has little to no relevance. He is also the master of yelling at people and shouting down their voices when they do not agree with him.
I don't think much of Geraldo, but at least he was trying to make a reasonable argument. Bill just sits there and yells how, he is an illegal, and should be deported, without once acknowledging Geraldo about the drunk driving itself.

[Azure]

No. O'Rielly, the master of getting people to watch his show.

[Dion]

Supposedly those 2 guys are friends. You wouldn't know by the way they arguing.

[moon]

Seems that they both have a good point there. O'Reilly is right that is disgusting that Illegal aliens are able to come to the US and commit crimes. I disagree with Geraldo when he cliams that they commit crimes at a lower rate than legit americans (Don't disagree withthe stement I disagree with the point.) It doesn't matter that they commit crimes at a lower rate it matters that they commit crimes at all. First off they committed a crime when they illegally entered the country but more importantly they shouldn't be there at all so any crime they commit is that much worse.

Yes, O-Reilly is trivializing the actual crime but he is raising a good issue about these illegal aliens coming to America and comitting crimes and the real problem that it is.

Edit realised I worded that phrase wrong.

[Devils'Advocate]

Bull.

You throw all the illegals out of the United States and you will see a major economic downturn. "It's disgusting that illegal aliens are able to come to US and commit crimes"? What the hell does that even MEAN?!?!

I'm sure that you have a link to back up your claim that illegals commit crimes at a higher rate than legal Americans.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Bull.

You throw all the illegals out of the United States and you will see a major economic downturn. "It's disgusting that illegal aliens are able to come to US and commit crimes"? What the hell does that even MEAN?!?!

I'm sure that you have a link to back up your claim that illegals commit crimes at a higher rate than legal Americans.

I never said they did. I believed Geraldo when he said that they commit them at a lower rate, but to me any crime committed by someone who is in the country illegally is worse because of the fact that they should not be there. Obviously some crimes this does not apply to, as I am sure that murder is just as hard to deal with whether it was an illegal alien or not, but having illegals driving around drunk certainly isn't something that will increase the desire to have these people in the country.

Also it means what it says it is disgusting that there is more done to keep these people out of the country and even moreso those that commit crimes.

I am sure that the economy would recover and that there would be other ways to accomodate the necessary workers. You will never be able to totally eliminate illegal aliens but a lot more should be done to do so.

not sure why these people are looked at as sympathetic. They are law breakers plain and simple. Go through the proper channels, get the necessary paper work and then contribute to your new society. I have to follow the rules if I want to go work/live in the States not sure why these jerks feel they are better than those that do things the right way.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Bull.

You throw all the illegals out of the United States and you will see a major economic downturn. "It's disgusting that illegal aliens are able to come to US and commit crimes"? What the hell does that even MEAN?!?!

I'm sure that you have a link to back up your claim that illegals commit crimes at a higher rate than legal Americans.

I bet you could make an argument that poorer people commit more crimes. Now, whether it would be spurious or not, you could argue that since illegals are most often poor, they could commit, on average more crimes.

The answer, however, is not simple enough as "kick them out."

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Bull.

You throw all the illegals out of the United States and you will see a major economic downturn. "It's disgusting that illegal aliens are able to come to US and commit crimes"? What the hell does that even MEAN?!?!

I'm sure that you have a link to back up your claim that illegals commit crimes at a higher rate than legal Americans.

Exactly what it means.

Its disgusting that the US can't do something to prevent those illegal immigrants from crossing the border.

No reason to ship out the 11 million that are currently there, because as you said, it would be a huge blow to the economy, but there is no reason why the Mexican/US border cannot be protected properly.

How many terrorists, or people linked to terrorist organizations funnel in through Mexico on a daily basis?

[Devils'Advocate]

The Americans have the resources to do exactly what Stephen Colbert wants - two walls, with a moat in between patrolled by dragons.

Given the U.S.'s need for cheap labour, it's all a nod's as good as a wink to a blind bat, wink, wink, nudge, nudge...

I for one don't find people escaping extreme poverty to find work in a country that needs labour to be "disgusting". But that's just me.

[Azure]

I find the whole process disgusting.

Start processing them legally...perhaps by setting up a workers permit that lasts for 9 months, after which they will be reviewed again to see if they can stay in the US.

Absolutely no reason to let everything happen illegally.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Dion

Supposedly those 2 guys are friends. You wouldn't know by the way they arguing.

Geraldo's mic wasn't cut so they must be friends.

As for the argument "it's worse because it was an illegal", I don't know. I admit it kind of seems "worse", but is it really? The crime they are bickering about sounds like it's a drunk driver killing someone. Would it be better if it was an American citizen committing the crime? If so, better for who?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Azure

I find the whole process disgusting.

Start processing them legally...perhaps by setting up a workers permit that lasts for 9 months, after which they will be reviewed again to see if they can stay in the US.

Absolutely no reason to let everything happen illegally.

The way I see it is the Americans are creating a new class system, citizens and illegal aliens.

The benefits are that the illegals will work for less money and take any jobs they can get and are filling a niche, no worries about unions, health benifits, etc. This is fine for the average citizen when times are good but in an economic downturn when people are losing their jobs, it's going to be tough as they'll be in competition with the illegals. Say goodbye to benefits and the union job and say goodbye to the middle class.

This isn't happening because Bush can't control the border, it's a conscious economic decision.

[moon]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Geraldo's mic wasn't cut so they must be friends.

As for the argument "it's worse because it was an illegal", I don't know. I admit it kind of seems "worse", but is it really? The crime they are bickering about sounds like it's a drunk driver killing someone. Would it be better if it was an American citizen committing the crime? If so, better for who?

To me knowing that there are drunk drivers driving around is bad enough, knowing that they have no right being in the country would make me even more angry.

When I said it I was meaning more to do with the fact that often people claim that the illegals do no real harm and people make a big deal out of it. If there are some that come and committ crimes then I think a big deal should be made about it.

I guess if crime were such that if that Illegal Alien wasnt driving drunk and killing someone it would have been an American citizen doing so. It must be hard enough to deal with the death of a loved one to know that it occured because someone hopped the border and was illegally living in the country and could have been avoided by tougher measures to prevent this then I think it would make it that much harder.

The fact is these people should not be there at all, let alone be there committing crimes.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by moon

The fact is these people should not be there at all, let alone be there committing crimes.

Exactly.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by moon

To me knowing that there are drunk drivers driving around is bad enough, knowing that they have no right being in the country would make me even more angry.

There are a hell of a lot more drunk drivers driving around that are American citizens. It looks to me like O'Reilly is, shockingly, twisting this tragedy into something that it is not.

Drunk driving is one issue. Illegal immigration is a different issue. "Drunk-driving illegal immigrants" is not an issue. If it was, this story wouldn't make the national news.

If he has something to say about illegal immigration (or drunk driving), which he obviously does, he should say it instead of sensationalizing the subject with this cheap "they are coming here and running down good American citizens" ploy.

Illegal immigration must be a tough subject for guys like O'Reilly to tackle. He's a conservative griping about illegal immigration but the rich conservative Republicans in power like George and his backers don't appear to want to do anything about it.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Geraldo's mic wasn't cut so they must be friends.

As for the argument "it's worse because it was an illegal", I don't know. I admit it kind of seems "worse", but is it really? The crime they are bickering about sounds like it's a drunk driver killing someone. Would it be better if it was an American citizen committing the crime? If so, better for who?

No it wouldn't and that is what Geraldo was trying to get across I think. His point was that this case should be bringing up the problem of drunk driving, not illegal immigration.

[Daradon]

Never thought I'd say it, but go Geraldo!

Bill, confusing the points again, and when he has nothing left to say he just starts screaming at Geraldo that he's advocating anarchy, on he doesnt even say it that nicely, just says that he wants anarchy.

Again trying to turn any story into his political agenda and missing the real points. Glad Geraldo called him out on it.

(The whole thing may have been staged anyway)