When voting is a matter of faith

[Cowperson]

A story on the importance of faith in the USA election, how some people have "faith" as their top issue in shaping their vote.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto.../International/

Cowperson

[Frank the Tank]

Ummm, link goes to a google search on lawnmower racing?

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by Frank the Tank@Oct 25 2004, 02:21 PM
Ummm, link goes to a google search on lawnmower racing?

Fixed. Thanks. A little lawnmower racing joke in the office.

Cowperson

[Frank the Tank]

Wow. Religion scares me more and more every day.

[sjwalter]

Why?

Both Kerry and Bush have tried to gain votes by going to church and looking for support. Only difference is that Kerry was been ridiculed by the Catholic and Protestant churches, and he doesn't have such a good track record.

[RougeUnderoos]

including a guide to improving your golf game with help from the Bible and Jack Nicklaus.



CNN had a totally unscientific poll on their site last week about this. Question was "does your religion play a part in who you vote for" and the "No" side took a huge win, like 70-80% answering no.

Doesn't mean much, but it was interesting.

[FlamesAllTheWay]

Originally posted by sjwalter@Oct 25 2004, 04:57 PM
Why?

Both Kerry and Bush have tried to gain votes by going to church and looking for support. Only difference is that Kerry was been ridiculed by the Catholic and Protestant churches, and he doesn't have such a good track record.

Kind of a sad reality. The constitution calls for a clear seperation of the church and the state. However, the reality is that alot of people in the U.S.A. are very religious and it will affect their voting habits. So the politicians are sort of forced to play on this.

Scares me too though, there is no place for religion in government and it should have no real bearing on who you vote for...

[sjwalter]

Originally posted by FlamesAllTheWay+Oct 25 2004, 04:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FlamesAllTheWay @ Oct 25 2004, 04:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-sjwalter@Oct 25 2004, 04:57 PM
Why?

Both Kerry and Bush have tried to gain votes by going to church and looking for support. Only difference is that Kerry was been ridiculed by the Catholic and Protestant churches, and he doesn't have such a good track record.

Kind of a sad reality. The constitution calls for a clear seperation of the church and the state. However, the reality is that alot of people in the U.S.A. are very religious and it will affect their voting habits. So the politicians are sort of forced to play on this.

Scares me too though, there is no place for religion in government and it should have no real bearing on who you vote for... [/b][/quote]
It does though.

Bush has clearly said he is a man of faith, Kerry is trying too.

And if you're a Christian, a President who trusts God is clearly who you would vote for. IMO Bush has showed that more. Kerry can't get it straight that abortion and Catholic doesn't mix.

[Claeren]

Originally posted by sjwalter+Oct 25 2004, 05:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (sjwalter @ Oct 25 2004, 05:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Kind of a sad reality. The constitution calls for a clear seperation of the church and the state. However, the reality is that alot of people in the U.S.A. are very religious and it will affect their voting habits. So the politicians are sort of forced to play on this.

Scares me too though, there is no place for religion in government and it should have no real bearing on who you vote for...

It does though.

Bush has clearly said he is a man of faith, Kerry is trying too.

And if you're a Christian, a President who trusts God is clearly who you would vote for. IMO Bush has showed that more. Kerry can't get it straight that abortion and Catholic doesn't mix. [/b][/quote]
What does HIS faith have to do with US law? He doesn't have to get the abortion....

The president is responsible for ruling all US citizens equally and within the confines of the constitution only, not according to the bible or their personal beliefs.

Kerry said that specifically in the second debate although i am sure the average Bush supporter does not remember that debate, let alone understand the basis of his statement. (Not about intelligence, it is about base logic and education in regards to the very basics of democratic rule)

And 'trusting god'? What is that? It could lead to ANY whim a person wants... does one even have to start giving examples? Babies in bath tubs in Texas comes to mind as a recent example although there are plenty of grander ones in history.

Claeren.

[Savvy27]

Originally posted by sjwalter@Oct 25 2004, 11:47 PM
It does though.

Bush has clearly said he is a man of faith, Kerry is trying too.

And if you're a Christian, a President who trusts God is clearly who you would vote for. IMO Bush has showed that more. Kerry can't get it straight that abortion and Catholic doesn't mix.

A person should vote for who they think will do the best job of leading a country. Faith should have nothing to do with it. Bush has stated that he is a man of faith because it is convenient for him as a politician. If he was a democrat he wouldn't be bothering spouting off about God because the religious right still wouldn't vote for him.

A President who trusts God? What does that even mean? Osama bin Laden trusts God so much that he figures he's carrying out his will by murdering 'the infidels'. (Just like Bush is carrying out God's "will" by killing the brown peop... er... I mean terrorists). Do you think Osama would be a good president because of his faith? Or does his faith not count because its not Christian?

As for the abortion comment... I think its fortunate that (at least on this point) Kerry and LOGIC do mix. He realizes that not everyone believes the same as he does and that if abortions were banned people would turn to alternatives like back-alley abortion clinics which would be insanely dangerous.

I agree that religion can be a very scary thing when mixed with politics.

[sjwalter]

Originally posted by Savvy27+Oct 25 2004, 06:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Savvy27 @ Oct 25 2004, 06:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-sjwalter@Oct 25 2004, 11:47 PM
It does though.

Bush has clearly said he is a man of faith, Kerry is trying too.

And if you're a Christian, a President who trusts God is clearly who you would vote for. IMO Bush has showed that more. Kerry can't get it straight that abortion and Catholic doesn't mix.

A person should vote for who they think will do the best job of leading a country. Faith should have nothing to do with it. Bush has stated that he is a man of faith because it is convenient for him as a politician. If he was a democrat he wouldn't be bothering spouting off about God because the religious right still wouldn't vote for him.

A President who trusts God? What does that even mean? Osama bin Laden trusts God so much that he figures he's carrying out his will by murdering 'the infidels'. (Just like Bush is carrying out God's "will" by killing the brown peop... er... I mean terrorists). Do you think Osama would be a good president because of his faith? Or does his faith not count because its not Christian?

As for the abortion comment... I think its fortunate that (at least on this point) Kerry and LOGIC do mix. He realizes that not everyone believes the same as he does and that if abortions were banned people would turn to alternatives like back-alley abortion clinics which would be insanely dangerous.

I agree that religion can be a very scary thing when mixed with politics. [/b][/quote]
I never said abortion was wrong, IMO it is, but Kerry calls himself a true Catholic but doesn't realize that a true Catholic doesn't believe in abortion in fact he rejects it. Thats why the Catholics have a problem with Kerry.

And many people vote for a President that trusts God, and what you said about Bin Laden is totally stupid. Even the dumbest liberal would know he doesn't believe in the same God that Kerry and Bush say they do. His God demands that he kills infidels, where Bush and Kerry's God rules under the ten commandments. You have to realize that there are many devout Christians in the US and many base their vote on which President has more faith. They believe that God will treat a country just and bless it if a God Fearing President is in power that makes God fearing decisions. I believe you are implying to me that a President can't confess himself to be a Christian when he is in power, but out of power he can. Doesn't that take freedom of religon away from the people? Many people believe that a person makes good judgements by his faith and thats why they base their vote on faith. I have no problem with this because there is the Freedom of Religon that we have and it should be honored.

And if a President does what is best for the people, he never goes to War, never starts a war and never hunts down terrorists. Why? Because it kills American boys fighting the war. I would hope that a President doesn't listen to the demands of the people because i don't care what we think of an issue the President always knows more then we do, and thus has to act upon it. If he would listen to the demands of the people nothing in this world would ever get accomplised because it always happens that the idiots are always the ones being heard, especially with the media we have.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally posted by sjwalter@Oct 25 2004, 07:55 PM
And many people vote for a President that trusts God, and what you said about Bin Laden is totally stupid. Even the dumbest liberal would know he doesn't believe in the same God that Kerry and Bush say they do. His God demands that he kills infidels, where Bush and Kerry's God rules under the ten commandments.

That's what bugs me about religion............

One person believes their god is 100% right, and others across the ocean believe theirs is 100% right.

So, who's right?

It's no wonder religion is the basis for virtually every war ever fought on this planet.

So, how many gods are up there anyways? Do they all scrap each other? Or do they all hang out and have a beer and watch us all on some massive big-screen TV in never-never land?

[Savvy27]

I never said abortion was wrong, IMO it is, but Kerry calls himself a true Catholic but doesn't realize that a true Catholic doesn't believe in abortion in fact he rejects it.

You're missing the point of what I said. Kerry does not SUPPORT abortion, he supports the freedom to choose. Which to a lot of people (including catholics, I think you have your Christian sects mixed up here) is more important than using the government to enforce the teachings of a church.

Even the dumbest liberal would know he doesn't believe in the same God that Kerry and Bush say they do.

Actually, if you had any idea what you were talking about you'd know that according to religious history it IS the same God. The different religions came from two members of the same lineage (Abraham's). Ishmael and Isaiah I believe... could be wrong about the details though.

His God demands that he kills infidels, where Bush and Kerry's God rules under the ten commandments.

Actually no "his" God doesn't demand that. Its a common misconception. Like most religions a key component of Islam is to treat others as you would have them treat you.

I believe you are implying to me that a President can't confess himself to be a Christian when he is in power, but out of power he can. Doesn't that take freedom of religon away from the people?

What? No, thats not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that country with people of many beliefs shouldn't be run as though they are all christians. I don't understand what you mean about taking freedom of religion away from the people so I won't address that.

I would hope that a President doesn't listen to the demands of the people because i don't care what we think of an issue the President always knows more then we do, and thus has to act upon it.

Do you have any idea what a democracy is supposed to be? The leader of a country works FOR the people. That's the whole idea. You sound like a great candidate to live in a Theocracy, like the taliban, but christian. Look into it.

[Hack&Lube]

A President can believe with conviction that he's doing God's will and still be wrong. Remember that last article that talked about Bush, his faith, and his leadership "by gut"?

Christian faith should not be a blind faith.

[Frank the Tank]

Originally posted by sjwalter@Oct 25 2004, 10:57 PM
Why?

Both Kerry and Bush have tried to gain votes by going to church and looking for support. Only difference is that Kerry was been ridiculed by the Catholic and Protestant churches, and he doesn't have such a good track record.

Religion scares me because the people interviewed are making their choices on faith and faith alone, not who would actually be a good president. Thats just stupid in my books.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Imagine this: an ideal candidate - well spoken, intelligent, compassionate, strong individual runs for office and emerges a lead candidate for President of the United States. We could almost use a pre-Bush Colin Powell as an example. One wrinkle: he's Muslim. Does he stand a chance? Would the American public accept that?

Strictly Hypothetical.

[dangler22]

I think we all know the answer to that-Hell No.

[Cowperson]

GW Bush talks to ABC News about religion, God and politics.

Christians and Muslims, he says, pray to the same God.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=193746&page=1

Cowperson

[ah123]

Originally posted by I-Hate-Hulse@Oct 26 2004, 08:44 AM
Imagine this: an ideal candidate - well spoken, intelligent, compassionate, strong individual runs for office and emerges a lead candidate for President of the United States. We could almost use a pre-Bush Colin Powell as an example. One wrinkle: he's Muslim. Does he stand a chance? Would the American public accept that?

Strictly Hypothetical.

The way the world (read US) is right now, you need to be male, caucasian and Christian to be elected president...As far as I know, the US has not even had a female vice-president yet...

[I-Hate-Hulse]

It's not exactly shattering the mold, but Kennedy was Catholic.