Kobe Bryant BETTER than Michael Jordan? - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Displaced Flames fan · 03-26-2007, 10:00 PM

Yup, according to ESPN columnist Jemele Hill.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...6&sportCat=nba

Personally, I think she's high or in love.

kipperfan · 03-26-2007, 10:13 PM

Thats pretty funny stuff. Jemele can write another article when Kobe Bryant acctually leads his team somewhere, him scoring 50 points a night after throwing up 40 shots doesnt really impress me. As soon as Shaq daddy moved on the Lakers fell flat, even now with Phillip back they are nothing to write home about. The thing that made MJ the best(like Gretz) is that he had the ability to take his team on his back and win a championship....and he did it many times. Kobe hasnt even shown a sniff of that IMO. Also....how many points would MJ have averaged if he took as many shots as Kobe does.....alot more I know that much.

OILFAN #81 · 03-26-2007, 10:23 PM

Kobe Bryant is better then Michael Jordan at some things..............

but basketball is not one of them.

RougeUnderoos · 03-26-2007, 10:36 PM

Kind of a strange article in that much of her argument is based on the fact that Jordan played in a completely different era and the players weren't as big/strong/good/et cetera. Jordan won the title, the MVP and the playoff MVP less than 10 years ago during Bryant's second season in the NBA. Sure their careers began several years apart, but they did overlap for several seasons. Things can't have changed that much. And stuff like "Robinson and Olajuwon aren't as good as O'Neal and Duncan..." -- these people played with and against each other. They weren't from different times.They were older, but they played in the same league.

Bah. I don't know anything about basketball. This woman's argument seems like the equivalent of saying "Iginla is better than Shanahan, because Jarome has had to face stiffer competition in his career".

octothorp · 03-26-2007, 11:07 PM

Bryant isn't even the best player in the league. If Kobe is better than MJ, then Nash, Nowitzki, Duncan and Garnett are all also better than MJ. And if that's the case, then who cares if Bryant is better than Kobe. Comparing players between eras is only vaguely meaningful if the players you are comparing are the best of their era.

renny · 03-27-2007, 08:50 AM

stupid argument saying they played in a different era. that's like saying larry bird sucks cause he played well before MJ and Bryant.

FanIn80 · 03-27-2007, 09:06 AM

Bryant can only be considered better than MJ if Nash is also better than MJ...

... because Kobe can't hold a candle to Nash.

StrayBullet · 03-27-2007, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Bryant can only be considered better than MJ if Nash is also better than MJ...

... because Kobe can't hold a candle to Nash.

Steve Nash is NOT better than Kobe Bryant.

socalwingfan · 03-27-2007, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Bryant can only be considered better than MJ if Nash is also better than MJ...

... because Kobe can't hold a candle to Nash.

I like Steve Nash, but Kobe has been named to the all-defensive team 6 times, Nash is a matador on D. As for shot selection, Kobe plays with Smush Parker, Kwame Brown and Luke Walton - who the hell is he going to pass to??

Bobblehead · 03-27-2007, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrayBullet

Steve Nash is NOT better than Kobe Bryant.

They're different.

Nash seems able to raise the level of play of everyone around him by multiple levels. Look at his team when he missed some games. There aren't many other players that have that impact on their teammates.

Nash will never throw up 50s like Kobe. But I don't think Kobe makes any of his teammates better players.

If I was picking a fantasy team, I'd pick Kobe. If I was starting a real franchise, I pick Nash.

Table 5 · 03-27-2007, 09:57 AM

Michael Jordan transformed the game of basketball...he was the biggest face of the sport, and became a cultural icon. I used to watch basketball when Jordan was playing....now I can't stand the sport. Make guys like me watch your sport Kobe, and then we'll talk.

calculoso · 03-27-2007, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrayBullet

Steve Nash is NOT better than Kobe Bryant.

Better attitude? Yes.

Better ball handler? Yes.

Makes teammates better? Yes.

Better scorer? No.

Bobblehead · 03-27-2007, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by socalwingfan

I like Steve Nash, but Kobe has been named to the all-defensive team 6 times, Nash is a matador on D. As for shot selection, Kobe plays with Smush Parker, Kwame Brown and Luke Walton - who the hell is he going to pass to??

Isn't that kind of the point? Kobe's stats wouldn't be quite as big if he had a Pippin who would also take a portion of the shots. That doesn't mean Kobe isn't great, but that in his system his stats are inflated versus what they would be on other teams.

StrayBullet · 03-27-2007, 10:01 AM

All Jemele Hill is doing is re-hashing the argument of "The Next MJ". The dislike and hatred for Kobe is so massive, people forget or rather insist on turning a blind eye to his talent. It's a simple reminder. While the league and it's fans and the media consistently scrutinze him, they love crowning players who do not deserve it. (ie: Lebron, Wade, etc.) There is no doubt that these two specific players are much easier to like and market, they DO have tons of talent and one of them has even won a title, but giving them accolades and praise is pre-mature. The same thing happened to Kobe. You cannot fault these players, however, if there was an argument, Kobe is absolutely the closest.
I definetly do not agree with everything Jemele Hill has stated, but she does put up good points in Kobe's case. Cases that I also believe in. Kobe WAS better than Michael at 22. Kobe WAS better than Michael at 26. The question is, will Kobe be better than Michael at 32? Call me if this happens.
I really don't think Hill truly believes that Kobe is better than Michael. Her arguments against Michael are based on personality and image. (...like being an ideal husband. Hardly a legit point.) The first 5 lines show me that she doesn't believe it. She's simply reminding people that although the hate for Kobe runs deep, the expectations for him are high. Space-like, even.

Bobblehead · 03-27-2007, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Table 5

Michael Jordan transformed the game of basketball...he was the biggest face of the sport, and became a cultural icon. I used to watch basketball when Jordan was playing....now I can't stand the sport. Make guys like me watch your sport Kobe, and then we'll talk.

I was playing HS ball in the 80s. I still remember the first few guys who were wearing Air Jordans. Jordan took the mantle and raised the game to a whole new level. Kobe is still being measured against other players's accompishments. Jordan transcended all others.

StrayBullet · 03-27-2007, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

They're different.

Nash seems able to raise the level of play of everyone around him by multiple levels. Look at his team when he missed some games. There aren't many other players that have that impact on their teammates.

Nash will never throw up 50s like Kobe. But I don't think Kobe makes any of his teammates better players.

If I was picking a fantasy team, I'd pick Kobe. If I was starting a real franchise, I pick Nash.

And so without Nash, the Suns are nothing? Amare, Shawn Marion, Barbosa, Diaw... But without Kobe, ....Lamar Odom, Smush, Andrew Bynum, Luke Walton, Sasha Vujavic are better off? The Lakers had a better record without Kobe, right? Sure.

I agree with you; Steve Nash and Kobe are different players. Nash is a point guard and Kobe is a swingman. But when you're constantly double and triple-teamed, you're above .500 in the Western Conference, with a roster full of scrubs and "9th mans" and Luke Walton starts to look promising, I'd think you're making you're teammates better.

Yes... yes. We all know the arguments, "Nash is so unselfish and Kobe is a ball-hog." "Kobe plays for himself." ...blah, blah, blah... In case anyone hasn't been watching, Kobe has completely changed his game. Phil said he was "uncoachable". He comes back. Talks it over with Kobe last season and they make the playoffs and almost knock-off the would-be, "MVP" and his Suns. Same thing this season. Kobe is ALOT different now than he was 2 years ago.

The Lakers go on a 7 game losing streak and Phil basically had to force Kobe to start shooting and STOP PASSING!!! And now they're on a 5 game winning streak since then. 4 consecutive 50-point games, 43 on Sunday and a winning streak, while the rest of the team has been playing poorly.

Yea... I'd rather take Steve Nash too.

StrayBullet · 03-27-2007, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Isn't that kind of the point? Kobe's stats wouldn't be quite as big if he had a Pippin who would also take a portion of the shots. That doesn't mean Kobe isn't great, but that in his system his stats are inflated versus what they would be on other teams.

So I guess in "this system", Michael's stats were inflated too?

FanIn80 · 03-27-2007, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Table 5

Michael Jordan transformed the game of basketball...he was the biggest face of the sport, and became a cultural icon. I used to watch basketball when Jordan was playing....now I can't stand the sport. Make guys like me watch your sport Kobe, and then we'll talk.

That's an excellent point. I watched ball when MJ played, and then I slowly drifted away after he left... then I came back when Nash went back to Phx.

That garbage about "who's Kobe going to pass to?" is a joke. Kobe's had some great teams playing around him, and he didn't pass then either.

Kobe and Nash are both similar in that they both expect the ball in their hands when the game matters. The difference is that one will try to do it all by himself, and the other one doesn't give a rat's ass about himself and just wants to win - no matter who gets the shot.

By the way... don't look now, but there are PGs coming up through the ranks that are modeling themselves after Nash's game. Just like MJ ushered in the "me" era, Nash is on the verge of putting the "team" back in basketball.

M. V. 3.

FanIn80 · 03-27-2007, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrayBullet

And so without Nash, the Suns are nothing? Amare, Shawn Marion, Barbosa, Diaw...

With Nash...
Win 15.
Lose 1.
Win 17.
Lose 1.
Win 6.

Nash gets hurt...
Win 1.
Lose 2.
Win 1.
Lose 4.

Nash comes back...
Win 4.
Lose 1.
Win 6.

etc etc etc.

Are you really going to tell me that it's "all the other players" that have made a Nash-led team lead the league in scoring for the last SEVEN seasons? That includes a couple years in Dallas, by the way... Also, try to remember that no one even heard of Diaw Marion or Barbosa until Nash gave them all career season last year - the first year he'd ever played with them, I might add.

StrayBullet · 03-27-2007, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FanIn80

That's an excellent point. I watched ball when MJ played, and then I slowly drifted away after he left... then I came back when Nash went back to Phx.

That garbage about "who's Kobe going to pass to?" is a joke. Kobe's had some great teams playing around him, and he didn't pass then either.

Kobe and Nash are both similar in that they both expect the ball in their hands when the game matters

So basically, you didn't really watch basketball when "Kobe had 'great' teams around him"... because "you drifted away". And now you do watch because Steve Nash went back to Phoenix??? What was wrong with him when he was in Dallas?

And seriously.... Kobe and Nash ARE NOT the same. Kobe is taking the last shot. He's a game-breaker. Nash isn't a game-breaker.

Think about it: You 1.3 seconds left and you're down by 1. Are you really giving the ball to Nash and hoping he'll make a great pass? Or are you giving the ball to Kobe for the win? You're right, Kobe and Nash are the same.