British Navy welcomes it's first Satanist

[FlamesAddiction]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3948329.stm

Now I am all for freedom of religion in everyday life, but does it seem logical to let someone into the armed forces whose value system includes:

1. Indulgence instead of abstinence
2. Vengeance instead of turning the other cheek
3. Embracing sins "as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification"

[Claeren]

Is it any worse then the 100 MILLION 'rapturists' in the USA? Not only do they fight in the military they also control US foreign policy, essentially believing the integrity of Isreal must be maintained to usher themselves into heaven when the apocolypse comes. Non-rapturists? Damned to hell, no exceptions (The jews will be given a chance by god to recant and join the christian rapturists, if not they believe to hell with them too.). That is their only goal, as it is the only thing standing between them and heaven.

THAT is scary, who cares about one little satanist on a ship....

Claeren.

PS - Rapturists new to you? Go look into it.... pretty scary stuff, and i am not exaggerating, that is the really scary part...

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally posted by Claeren@Oct 24 2004, 09:00 PM
Is it any worse then the 100 MILLION 'rapturists' in the USA? Not only do they fight in the military they also control US foreign policy, essentially believing the integrity of Isreal must be maintained to usher themselves into heaven when the apocolypse comes. Non-rapturists? Damned to hell, no exceptions (The jews will be given a chance by god to recant and join the christian rapturists, if not they believe to hell with them too.). That is their only goal, as it is the only thing standing between them and heaven.

THAT is scary, who cares about one little satanist on a ship....

Claeren.

Do you actually believe that 100 million Americans are that strict in their Christian beliefs?

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally posted by Claeren@Oct 24 2004, 09:00 PM
and i am not exaggerating, that is the really scary part...

Uh, yeah you are....big time.

[Claeren]

Well, they say up to that many identify with the core teachings. I suppose you make a valid point that the elite of the group is much smaller (MAybe even into the hundreds). Although, the numbers/masses only have to lend support to the leadership, knowingly or not, for it to be effectivily the same thing...

Claeren.

[FlamesAddiction]

I'm just thinking that if you have a guy who openly practices Satanism, would you want him watching your back in a war zone? If he believes that indulgence is a virtue, and that sinning is good, you can bet that he would likely shoot you for your rations if supply lines were cut off.

I just think the line between being an "equal opportunity employer" and sanity has been crossed here.

[Claeren]

Originally posted by Displaced Flames fan+Oct 24 2004, 03:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Displaced Flames fan @ Oct 24 2004, 03:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Claeren@Oct 24 2004, 09:00 PM
and i am not exaggerating, that is the really scary part...

Uh, yeah you are....big time. [/b][/quote]
I meant in reference to the core belief, not the numbers. Although the numbers are huge, hard thing to pin point....

Claeren.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally posted by Claeren@Oct 24 2004, 09:04 PM
Well, they say up to that many identify with the core teachings. I suppose you make a valid point that the elite of the group is much smaller (MAybe even into the hundreds). Although, the numbers/masses only have to lend support to the leadership, knowingly or not, for it to be effectivily the same thing...

Claeren.

I'm with you until the last line, which simply isn't true.

And let me also point out that rapturists aren't limited to the USA...there are plenty of them around the world.

[Claeren]

Originally posted by Displaced Flames fan+Oct 24 2004, 03:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Displaced Flames fan @ Oct 24 2004, 03:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Claeren@Oct 24 2004, 09:04 PM
Well, they say up to that many identify with the core teachings. I suppose you make a valid point that the elite of the group is much smaller (MAybe even into the hundreds). Although, the numbers/masses only have to lend support to the leadership, knowingly or not, for it to be effectivily the same thing...

Claeren.

I'm with you until the last line, which simply isn't true.

And let me also point out that rapturists aren't limited to the USA...there are plenty of them around the world. [/b][/quote]
Do you think all Germans were Nazi's?
Even those that were, did they all support all Nazi actions?
Did they know (understand even) about all Nazi intents and goals?

Or Russians Communists?
Even those that were, did they all support all Communist actions?
Did they know (understand even) about all Communist intents and goals?

Of course not.

Scarier yet, do you think pre-new-ideology there were large dissenting groups in those counrty's that thought the new elites were crazy?

All it takes is momentum, implicit support by the masses (unknowing and unquestioning, yet trustful), and support by a small influential group of elites through the first few stages of development and a group/ideology/cult can quickly take hold of all avenues of power. The war on 'terror' (Not even a noun!) and things like the Patriot Act make it all that much scarier, in terms of gathering unsuspecting support, political capital, and putting down dissent when it comes.

I am not sure of any signicant group of elite rapturists outside of the USA? Some minor pockets of general support but mostly directly through American ties....


I am not off advocating conspiriacy theories though, i am just pointing something out that is kind of scary. The primary question and concern though, at this point is, is it a cult, a fringe religous movement, or a mainstream relgous revolution?

Claeren.

[HOZ]

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction@Oct 24 2004, 09:07 PM
I'm just thinking that if you have a guy who openly practices Satanism, would you want him watching your back in a war zone? If he believes that indulgence is a virtue, and that sinning is good, you can bet that he would likely shoot you for your rations if supply lines were cut off.

I just think the line between being an "equal opportunity employer" and sanity has been crossed here.

Or he would just shoot you and....eat you.


Another twist is that he would have no problems with killing.

Military main problem is having soldiers overcome their fear (can't come up witht he right word) of killing another human being and then dealing with all the mental problems after combat.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Terror isn't a noun? What part of speech is it then?

You're a little hyped up on this rapturist thing comparing it to the rise of Hitler. Sorry, I don't see the parallel in the least.


Every protestant denomination can be considered rapturists, and you could make a strong case for Catholicism as well.

[Daradon]

Satanists don't really believe in 'sinning', per se, as they don't have a god to sin against. They don't really believe in Lucifer or Satan, just the spirit they embody. (No not 'evil' what ever you term that to mean) They believe ultimately in individualism and believe that Lucifer, as the story goes, was the first individualist as he choose not to follow God. They believe in finding out the truth for themselves and following their own path. Before the Church was created in 1966 the only 'Satanists' would have been those who believed in Satan, so they were mostly Christians to begin with, or Christians rebelling. In fact, the Christian wing of study called 'demonolgy' help produce a few of these people.

The 'cults' that all sorts of nasty things got blamed on were mostly myths or even outright lies to try and railroad certain groups, much like witch burnings throughout the ages. There were of course a few crazies that believ in such evil things, but you can find that all over the world, in any religion, in any country, etc.

So as far as having a Satanist guard my back in war well I'd look at it this way. They are highly determined people who do whatever it takes to succeed and don't let the moral trappings of many hold them back. That could be very useful in war if it comes down to 'do or die' or 'survival of the fittest'. Of course, if it came to a situation where they had to risk their own life to go 'above and beyond the call of duty' or just out of the goodness of their heart to save someone, they probably wouldn't. So it could go either way, but just like it would with anyone else. At least they wouldn't be waiting for someone else or SOMETHING else (se god) to deliver them from danger.

Of course, these are if the ideas are followed to the letter. As with any religion, there are many MANY (usually the majority even) that fall within some middle ground of the teachings. I would have no problem if the guy guarding my back was a Satanist. And I definitely don't think hey should be discriminated against based on religion. Let me put it this way...

People killed in the name of Christianity?
People killed in the name of Islam?
People killed in the name of Satanism?

Even if you were to average it out per capita, the first two would have a HUGE lead.