German Incest Couple Calls For Change In Law - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Nehkara · 03-02-2007, 09:30 PM

Patrick and Susan are a couple and have four children. They are also brother and sister and that makes their relationship illegal under German law. Patrick and Susan didn’t even know of each other’s existence until Patrick was over 20 years old and Susan was in her teens. After their mother died, they lived together and eventually fell in love.

http://edition.cnn.com/exchange/blogs/in.the.field/

The rundown is that they (as noted above) didn't meet until they were older and have four children (three of which have been taken away). Patrick has been jailed before for his relationship with Susan.

The couple are challenging Germany's incest laws in the highest court, however, if the court decides not to take the case then Patrick will be jailed again.

Many other European countries repealed bans on incestuous love long ago, according to the article.

My view, personally, is that while there are many controversial issues surrounding the topic, that it should not be illegal for them to have a romantic relationship. Perhaps there should be some kind of genetic testing program in place should a pregnancy occur, but I certainly don't think the relationship should be illegal.

Discuss.

Flash Walken · 03-02-2007, 09:33 PM

interesting thread...

kinda makes me want to bone my brother-what?

Nehkara · 03-02-2007, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

interesting thread...

kinda makes me want to bone my brother-what?

Heh...

Well, I thought it was interesting.

I know I may be opening a can of worms here but I just thought it was a subject that could generate some good discussion/debate.

Displaced Flames fan · 03-02-2007, 09:43 PM

I think nature does a pretty good job of showing us why we aren't supposed to mate with someone that closely related to us.

corporatejay · 03-02-2007, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

I think nature does a pretty good job of showing us why we aren't supposed to mate with someone that closely related to us.

That's a weak argument.

As "gross" as it might be, the guy certainly shouldn't be jailed for this, they are adults they are allowed to make their own decisions.

I'm sure the social stigma they've gone through has been brutal enough that if it wasn't "real love" they would have broken up long long ago.

I say, "whatever" let them live their lives, going to jail is pretty ridiculous for something like this....who is he hurting?

Mean Mr. Mustard · 03-02-2007, 09:59 PM

Go to any hospital and look at the population of Hutterites who are recieving treatment at any given time and that should give the explanation for why it should be considered a no-go.

corporatejay · 03-02-2007, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Go to any hospital and look at the population of Hutterites who are recieving treatment at any given time and that should give the explanation for why it should be considered a no-go.

but Jail??? seriously...Jail??

you can't tell me this is a proportionate response.

Nehkara · 03-02-2007, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corporatejay

That's a weak argument.

As "gross" as it might be, the guy certainly shouldn't be jailed for this, they are adults they are allowed to make their own decisions.

I'm sure the social stigma they've gone through has been brutal enough that if it wasn't "real love" they would have broken up long long ago.

I say, "whatever" let them live their lives, going to jail is pretty ridiculous for something like this....who is he hurting?

This is basically my point of view.

Nehkara · 03-02-2007, 10:04 PM

There also has to be good reason why other countries in Europe repealed it... whether or not you think it is wrong or disgusting, I think it being illegal is a violation of rights and freedoms.

Vulcan · 03-02-2007, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nehkara

There also has to be good reason why other countries in Europe repealed it... whether or not you think it is wrong or disgusting, I think it being illegal is a violation of rights and freedoms.

Do you want to support their ######ed chlidren?
All rights have limitations.

Nehkara · 03-02-2007, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Do you want to support their ######ed chlidren?
All rights have limitations.

I don't think they are asking someone to support their "######ed" children, and beyond that I don't think it is even particulalry likely there will be problems in that area... just far more likely than usual.

There is no mention that any of their children had problems.

Vulcan · 03-02-2007, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nehkara

I don't think they are asking someone to support their "######ed" children, and beyond that I don't think it is even particulalry likely there will be problems in that area... just far more likely than usual.

There is no mention that any of their children had problems.

I wouldn't be that opposed to it if he agreed to a vasectomy or she agreed to have her tubes tied.

Nehkara · 03-02-2007, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I wouldn't be that opposed to it if he agreed to a vasectomy or she agreed to have her tubes tied.

I was thinking about this.

I think it would overall be more acceptable if they didn't have children and perhaps couldn't... or if there was some kind of manditory genetic testing or something, I don't know.

TheyCallMeBruce · 03-02-2007, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nehkara

I don't think they are asking someone to support their "######ed" children, and beyond that I don't think it is even particulalry likely there will be problems in that area... just far more likely than usual.

There is no mention that any of their children had problems.

Not sure if this is the same couple, but here's another article that states 2 of their children who suffer disabilities, though they are not sure if it was due to inbreeding.

The siblings fell in love, and their son Eric was born in 2002, followed by Sarah, now 4, Nancy, 3, and Sofia, 1. Two of the children are known to have disabilities, although it is not known whether they are a result of inbreeding, or because they were born prematurely

http://www.guardian.co.uk/germany/ar...022008,00.html

jonesy · 03-02-2007, 10:50 PM

I can't imagine why anyone would think it is a good idea to allow incest. I really don't care if you love your sister, you shouldn't boink her.
I mean really, some things are just 'wrong' like it or not.

kipperfan · 03-02-2007, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I wouldn't be that opposed to it if he agreed to a vasectomy or she agreed to have her tubes tied.

And THAT is the bottom line. If "couples" such as this would like to get married then a vasectomy should be mandatory. I could care less if they are adults, in love or anything else....that does not give them the right to bring children into the world who will more then likely be facing birth defects and a decided disadvantage in life.

Nehkara · 03-02-2007, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheyCallMeBruce

Not sure if this is the same couple, but here's another article that states 2 of their children who suffer disabilities, though they are not sure if it was due to inbreeding.

The siblings fell in love, and their son Eric was born in 2002, followed by Sarah, now 4, Nancy, 3, and Sofia, 1. Two of the children are known to have disabilities, although it is not known whether they are a result of inbreeding, or because they were born prematurely

http://www.guardian.co.uk/germany/ar...022008,00.html

Thanks, that is interesting. It is the same couple, I'm 99% sure. Details match up.

I guess this makes me lean further toward having some sort of either manditory contraception or manditory genetic testing.

I still feel that he shouldn't be facing jail time and that it should not be illegal.

kipperfan · 03-02-2007, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nehkara

I still feel that he shouldn't be facing jail time and that it should not be illegal.

The marriage itself...shouldnt be illegal IMO. Having children within that marriage should more then definatley be illegal.

Shazam · 03-02-2007, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nehkara

My view, personally, is that while there are many controversial issues surrounding the topic, that it should not be illegal for them to have a romantic relationship. Perhaps there should be some kind of genetic testing program in place should a pregnancy occur, but I certainly don't think the relationship should be illegal.

Discuss.

Good thing they don't enforce this law in Edmonton.

Nehkara · 03-02-2007, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kipperfan

And THAT is the bottom line. If "couples" such as this would like to get married then a vasectomy should be mandatory. I could care less if they are adults, in love or anything else....that does not give them the right to bring children into the world who will more then likely be facing birth defects and a decided disadvantage in life.

I would ask you, what about mandatory genetic testing of the fetus early in a pregnancy to check for abnormalities? If there are genetic abnormalities, mandatory abortion. If not, then they can go ahead.