Robot rights? It could happen, U.K. government told - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

jolinar of malkshor · 12-21-2006, 11:44 AM

Robots might one day be smart enough to demand emancipation from their human owners, raising the prospects they'll have to be treated as citizens, according to a speculative paper released by the British government.
Among the warnings: A "monumental shift" could occur if robots were developed to the point where they could reproduce, improve or think for themselves.

However, it warned that robots could sue for their rights if these were denied to them.
Should they prove successful, the paper said, "states will be obligated to provide full social benefits to them including income support, housing and possibly robo health care to fix the machines over time."
The paper did not address the likelihood such a rights-seeking robot would be developed, and it predicted the issue would not come up for at least 20 years.

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2...h-freedom.html

I for do not see this happening. Does anyone else believe that this may be true? This report believes that it may be an issue within 20 years. I don't think we will even come close to creating robots that are self aware (if it is even possible) for atleast a hundred years or more.

Looger · 12-21-2006, 11:46 AM

do a search on aritificial intelligence on sciam.com, there have been some unreal developments the last couple of years.

i don't see it as a current reality, but i wouldn't say impossible in 20 years...

Claeren · 12-21-2006, 12:30 PM

Do you remember what a desktop computer looked like in 1979?

No? Oh yeah, that is because they didn't exist yet!! lol...

Considering tech-innovation is accelerating i certianly see this STARTING to become an issue in ~20 years....

Claeren.

Wookie · 12-21-2006, 01:04 PM

Wow, that would take descrimination to a whole new level... It would be a pretty intense battle.

Murder for killing a robot?
Wipe it's memory clean? Is that murder? If you rebuilt it do you get off? What if you wipe the memory, and destroy all the parts and someone has a copy, can you reload it onto another robot and?... Weird.. the whole idea scares me

jolinar of malkshor · 12-21-2006, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claeren

Do you remember what a desktop computer looked like in 1979?

No? Oh yeah, that is because they didn't exist yet!! lol...

Considering tech-innovation is accelerating i certianly see this STARTING to become an issue in ~20 years....

Claeren.

There is a big difference in going from desktop computers to AI.....just because a robot maybe able to learn from his enviroment due to programming doesn't make him even close to that of humans, not to mention the emotional equation.

Agamemnon · 12-21-2006, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

There is a big difference in going from desktop computers to AI.....just because a robot maybe able to learn from his enviroment due to programming doesn't make him even close to that of humans, not to mention the emotional equation.

I think his point is that computers/AI have already come a long way in 20-30 years, there's no reason to think this pace of development will slow down. Its not beyond the realm of possibility to see these things becoming an issue in only a few decades given how fast research is moving in the industry.

RedHot25 · 12-21-2006, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

There is a big difference in going from desktop computers to AI.....just because a robot maybe able to learn from his enviroment due to programming doesn't make him even close to that of humans, not to mention the emotional equation.

Perhaps, but I think the point stands. Look at the Internet. Look where it is now, when you consider that most of us didn't have it in the mid-1990s (or whenever exactly it was).

Technology, especially computers etc, is advancing at a lightning fast pace.

Looger · 12-21-2006, 01:18 PM

mark W. Tilden's BEAM robot research, and its spiritual descendents with insect-level hive-mind cooperation with each other, in my opinion are proof of concept that the lowest level of the spark of self-direction are somewhat emulatable - simple electronic networks mimicing neurons.

this isn't the widely believed path to AI but i've been following the guy for years, even corresponded with him to get a copy of his original thesis. it's some interesting stuff, robots with unpredictable behaviour ultimately.

not intelligence but random and learned action. these robots don't pursue anything but energy or directed objectives, but they are not directly led to action - that is key.

not a totally unbelievable thing, not by a long shot.

octothorp · 12-21-2006, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I for do not see this happening. Does anyone else believe that this may be true? This report believes that it may be an issue within 20 years. I don't think we will even come close to creating robots that are self aware (if it is even possible) for atleast a hundred years or more.

Are we going to have self-aware machines in the next twenty or even fifty years? No. Is it going to become an issue in that time-frame? Absolutely. I have no doubt that within fifty years, we'll have robots that can pass the Turing test, can display emotion, and perhaps can argue convincingly for why they should be given equal rights. You could even have machines that see an increase in productivity when being treated as an equal. But does any of this actually equal self-awareness or even consciousness? Not by a long shot. Hell, I could go program a chatbot that demands emancipation right now, but which would be less deserving of emancipation than a single-celled organism. It'll be an issue for governments though, because there will be people who will want to believe that all these symptoms of humanity add up to self-awareness.

Mr.Coffee · 12-21-2006, 01:29 PM

Weird... Terminator flashback...

Azure · 12-21-2006, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wookie

Wow, that would take descrimination to a whole new level... It would be a pretty intense battle.

Murder for killing a robot?
Wipe it's memory clean? Is that murder? If you rebuilt it do you get off? What if you wipe the memory, and destroy all the parts and someone has a copy, can you reload it onto another robot and?... Weird.. the whole idea scares me

Makes me think of the movie Irobot.

Cowperson · 12-21-2006, 01:49 PM

An interesting article on coming issues surrounding Robot ethics.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...230715,00.html

Cowperson

GoinAllTheWay · 12-21-2006, 02:17 PM

AI scares the poop out of me.

Bring_Back_Shantz · 12-21-2006, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

AI scares the poop out of me.

I know me too. I mean the guy has some crazy game. How are you supposed to defend a guy like that?

evman150 · 12-21-2006, 02:59 PM

I don't see this being an issue for hundreds of years.

20 years? Larf. Developing things like computers and the internet is just a little bit different than building fake humans.

Table 5 · 12-21-2006, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claeren

Do you remember what a desktop computer looked like in 1979?

No? Oh yeah, that is because they didn't exist yet!! lol...

Not to be a wise ass, but by 79 we had an Apple, Commodore and a Tandy already out for about 2 years ( the Mits Alitair 8800, which came out in 75). I know, I know, small detail, and I'll move along now....

jolinar of malkshor · 12-21-2006, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by octothorp

Are we going to have self-aware machines in the next twenty or even fifty years? No. Is it going to become an issue in that time-frame? Absolutely. I have no doubt that within fifty years, we'll have robots that can pass the Turing test, can display emotion, and perhaps can argue convincingly for why they should be given equal rights. You could even have machines that see an increase in productivity when being treated as an equal. But does any of this actually equal self-awareness or even consciousness? Not by a long shot. Hell, I could go program a chatbot that demands emancipation right now, but which would be less deserving of emancipation than a single-celled organism. It'll be an issue for governments though, because there will be people who will want to believe that all these symptoms of humanity add up to self-awareness.

The only way this will become an issue is if Humans start making the demands for them. I really disagree with your assumption that robots will be more productive if they are seen as equals. They will be more productive if we damn well program them to be more productive.

Agamemnon · 12-21-2006, 03:57 PM

I think this is meant to address artificially intelligent, 'self-aware' beings, if and when they come. Its not meant to give the next generation supermarket checkout machine disability benefits. Some people here don't seem to be thinking outside the box enough.

Predicting what will and what won't be the case 30 years from now seems a bit foolish.

Claeren · 12-21-2006, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Table 5

Not to be a wise ass, but by 79 we had an Apple, Commodore and a Tandy already out for about 2 years ( the Mits Alitair 8800, which came out in 75). I know, I know, small detail, and I'll move along now....

I was under the impression that historically 1980 is considered the year that the 'home desktop' became a reality as a mass produced consumer product?

There were a number of technologies already out that contributed to that leap. But i was almost positive that 1980 was considered the turning point...

Claeren.

jolinar of malkshor · 12-21-2006, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

I think this is meant to address artificially intelligent, 'self-aware' beings, if and when they come. Its not meant to give the next generation supermarket checkout machine disability benefits. Some people here don't seem to be thinking outside the box enough.

Predicting what will and what won't be the case 30 years from now seems a bit foolish.

So do you think we will have self aware robots in 30 years?