Calgary Mulling over user fees for Airdrieites and Okotokians

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by fotze

http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Alberta/...70307-sun.html

I wouldn' fault anyone not able to get through a Rick bell column but the gist is those commuters to somehow pay addistional fee to make up for not paying Calgary taxes.

I'm all for more of the pay what you cost concept but Rick bell on side makes me rethink my position.

Edmonton thought of the same thing for people In Spruce Grove, St. Albert and such...unless you are willing to toll the main thurough fairs there is not much use talkning about it.

[4X4]

Can someone please just give me the gist of it? I tried to read the article but the first sentence was enough to remind me why I can't stand reading his "columns".

[Bleeding Red]

Is this like the toll if you bring you car into downtown London, UK?

They talk about this kind of toll in Toronto. Currently the regions around Toronto funel tax dollars to Toronto to cover social costs that were downloaded onto them by the province.

The Mayor of Toronto has also alluded to a Municipal Sales Tax.

I think these charges would hurt business downtown, no? Charge me a toll to come into town and now I come into town a lot less frequently, keeping my money in my neighbourhood.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

Is this like the toll if you bring you car into downtown London, UK?

They talk about this kind of toll in Toronto. Currently the regions around Toronto funel tax dollars to Toronto to cover social costs that were downloaded onto them by the province.

The Mayor of Toronto has also alluded to a Municipal Sales Tax.

I think these charges would hurt business downtown, no? Charge me a toll to come into town and now I come into town a lot less frequently, keeping my money in my neighbourhood.

I got the impression that parking, transit and other such infrastructure costs were being targeted. Out of towners don't pay taxes that go towards supporting these services yet they can take full advantage of them with no additional costs. For instance, people driving in from Airdrie who park at the zoo and take the train down town.

Perhaps there could be a surcharge on the parking space and a different fare for transit for those people. Enforcing the increase would be difficult, in my opinion, especially in the case of parking downtown.

[burn_baby_burn]

So people live in communities like Airdrie, Cochrane, or Okatoks to avoid paying city taxes? Or is it for a choice of live style? Maybe Cochrane should have a toll booth at the top of the hill for all the people from the city that jam pack that town every weekend.

[SeeGeeWhy]

"Sure he has math and logic on his side, but can Dr. No's user fee beef overcome council's desire to not be seen as 'bad guys' by out-of-towners?"

^^^

Worst headline in the history of journalism?

[Ford Prefect]

I'm a former Calgarian of 20 years who is now an out-of-towner (Drumheller). When I go to Calgary I seldom use the transit system, but yes, I do use infrastructure such as roads and mall parking lots. I also bring my credit and debit cards to Calgary. If city hall wants to start charging me tolls for the privilege of bringing my business into Calgary it will prove to be a boon for Red Deer, because that's where my credit and debit cards will be going.

It irks me how whiny city hall has become under Bronconnier. His strategy seems to be to milk the rest of the province to pay for Calgary's problems. I feel sorry for the infrastructure mess that Calgary is experiencing, but the rest of the province is in the same boat and we're not looking for taxpayers in other municipalities to pay our bills. Our taxes are already a lot higher than Calgary's, so helping foot the tax bill in Calgary as well is not an enticing proposition.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by SeeGeeWhy

"Sure he has math and logic on his side, but can Dr. No's user fee beef overcome council's desire to not be seen as 'bad guys' by out-of-towners?"

^^^

Worst headline in the history of journalism?

Check out these other gems from the article.

Silly Hall, Calgreedy, Steady Eddie

This is why I cannot read the Sun, it is such a low-brow terrible paper.

[rubecube]

I think this is fair. Do these people live outside the city just so they don't have to pay taxes? No, but they are still able to take advantage of our amenities without contributing to the cost.

[Madman]

My wife and I are moving out of Calgary to Okotoks and it is not to avoid paying the taxes - In fact they are higher down there. If the city wants to stop people from moving out of the city, maybe they should look at what is driving them out in the first place.

Schools - or lack thereof
Safety
Public recreation

And those are only a couple.

Oh, and the fact that Captain Blink is my Alderman really helps me sleep at night knowing we are leaving his ward.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

If city hall wants to start charging me tolls for the privilege of bringing my business into Calgary it will prove to be a boon for Red Deer, because that's where my credit and debit cards will be going.

You'd spend the extra half-hour in driving time (round trip) and extra money on gas (maybe six-dollars per trip) to avoid paying a user fee that would likely be less than the amount you'd spend on extra gas?

[SeeGeeWhy]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

I'm a former Calgarian of 20 years who is now an out-of-towner (Drumheller). When I go to Calgary I seldom use the transit system, but yes, I do use infrastructure such as roads and mall parking lots. I also bring my credit and debit cards to Calgary. If city hall wants to start charging me tolls for the privilege of bringing my business into Calgary it will prove to be a boon for Red Deer, because that's where my credit and debit cards will be going.

It irks me how whiny city hall has become under Bronconnier. His strategy seems to be to milk the rest of the province to pay for Calgary's problems. I feel sorry for the infrastructure mess that Calgary is experiencing, but the rest of the province is in the same boat and we're not looking for taxpayers in other municipalities to pay our bills. Our taxes are already a lot higher than Calgary's, so helping foot the tax bill in Calgary as well is not an enticing proposition.

That's a really good point.

Don't feel sorry for our infrastructure problems. Bronconnier and the City of Calgary as a whole reap what we sow. It seems like "we" want the city to span from the Alberta/Montana border to Edmonton City limits.. it is entirely frustrating, and even worse is to hear people complain about the problems they create on their own.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by octothorp

You'd spend the extra half-hour in driving time (round trip) and extra money on gas (maybe six-dollars per trip) to avoid paying a user fee that would likely be less than the amount you'd spend on extra gas?

I've done dumber things on principle. I'm not sure the round trip would take longer though. The round trip to the respective city limits is longer for Red Deer, but it takes a lot longer to go anywhere in Calgary. Factor that in and shopping and doing business in Red Deer is probably quicker. A few dollars in gas either more or less wouldn't be a factor as I'd be doing it on principle.

[looooob]

I don't really think this is a big issue for Calgary to consider

I do wonder if Winnipeg should look at this though...Winnipeg property taxes are quite high, infrastructure not great, and the core is in trouble...yet you have a bunch of tax havens perched just outside city limits where people who live and play in Winnipeg seem to live

at least that was my impression when I lived there last about 6 years ago...

[jolinar of malkshor]

It think it is very short sighted. These people work and spend their money in Calgary.....I dont think you can have it both ways. It is life....it's not always fair.

[kevman]

I didn't read the whole article but I'm ALL FOR charging out of towners more to use our public transportation system.

Lets look at Cochrane for example... say one were to drive to the new Crowfoot LRT and park their vehicle and then take the train in. They would be paying $80 a month or whatever it is for this service. Now compare that to a resident around the Banff Trail station. They also pay $80 a month for their transit pass and a percentage of their taxes to support the transit system. Now this Banff Trail user has watched their transit fee's go up as the CTrain has expanded further and further partly to accomodate those commuting from out of the city and at the same time they've watched their service level go down. Our CTrain is an underfunded mess and perhaps charging out of town users a little extra on monthly passes could go along way to restoring some of the service...or maybe not.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

I've done dumber things on principle. I'm not sure the round trip would take longer though. The round trip to the respective city limits is longer for Red Deer, but it takes a lot longer to go anywhere in Calgary. Factor that in and shopping and doing business in Red Deer is probably quicker. A few dollars in gas either more or less wouldn't be a factor as I'd be doing it on principle.

But shopping in Red Deer does not compare to the shopping in Calgary, or the restaurants, or nightlife, or other services, or...well you get my point. But I see your point as well. So now will the people spending their money elsewhere balance out with the people paying these "transport fees"?

Besides the difficult task of actually collecting these fees, are they even a decent amount worth all this hassle?

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by kevman

I didn't read the whole article but I'm ALL FOR charging out of towners more to use our public transportation system.

Lets look at Cochrane for example... say one were to drive to the new Crowfoot LRT and park their vehicle and then take the train in. They would be paying $80 a month or whatever it is for this service. Now compare that to a resident around the Banff Trail station. They also pay $80 a month for their transit pass and a percentage of their taxes to support the transit system. Now this Banff Trail user has watched their transit fee's go up as the CTrain has expanded further and further partly to accomodate those commuting from out of the city and at the same time they've watched their service level go down. Our CTrain is an underfunded mess and perhaps charging out of town users a little extra on monthly passes could go along way to restoring some of the service...or maybe not.

That's a good point. It's crucial, though, that in the case of the C-Train, that money go back into the system. Perhaps it should even go to funding the construction of commuter-trains that the city has talked about in it's long-term transit vision. If you're a commuter from Airdrie, does it become more pallatable if half of that dollar you're charged every time you come into the city will be put toward the creation of a commuter-rail that will eliminate the need for you to drive and park in the city? (With the other half going toward maintaining and improving the existing system.)

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by Burninator

But shopping in Red Deer does not compare to the shopping in Calgary, or the restaurants, or nightlife, or other services, or...well you get my point.

Red Deer has everything I need for shopping and restaurants. There are things that would still draw me into Calgary ... friends, the Flames, concerts ... but shopping, dining and having my company's professional and supplier needs looked after could all be easily taken care of in Red Deer.

[Madman]

Originally Posted by kevman

I didn't read the whole article but I'm ALL FOR charging out of towners more to use our public transportation system.

Lets look at Cochrane for example... say one were to drive to the new Crowfoot LRT and park their vehicle and then take the train in. They would be paying $80 a month or whatever it is for this service. Now compare that to a resident around the Banff Trail station. They also pay $80 a month for their transit pass and a percentage of their taxes to support the transit system. Now this Banff Trail user has watched their transit fee's go up as the CTrain has expanded further and further partly to accomodate those commuting from out of the city and at the same time they've watched their service level go down. Our CTrain is an underfunded mess and perhaps charging out of town users a little extra on monthly passes could go along way to restoring some of the service...or maybe not.

So letes say someone who lives in Calgary goes to that same Crowfoot station and pays the $80. Should Mr. Banff Trail resident still pay the same because he uses 50% of the total distance that the Crowfoot resident does? Maybe we should switch to a per km charge then?