IGN: Child Arrested for Opening Christmas Present Early

[fizzydrink]

http://wii.ign.com/articles/749/749361p1.html



I don't know what is worse, the kid's previous behaviors, or the mother not having a better plan than calling the cops. He must be a terrible kid, and she must not be too much better of a mother. Shame.

[Agamemnon]

Sounds like the kid had done more to peeve her than just open a christmas present early.

According to the boy's mother, he had already been caught shoplifting, stealing money from her, and punching a police officer. She told the Rock Hill Herald that she hopes this arrest will put a stop to his errant ways, because she is worried about his safety.

But yeah... if you have to call the cops to rein in your kid you may have screwed up somewhere along the line.

[CaptainCrunch]

Wow he dosen't sound like a great kid, but a lot of that comes from the parent. If that was my kid, all of his gifts would have gone back to the store, and his gift would have been a snow shovel and the job of clearing the entire south east of snow.

I don't think putting him in the care of the department of corrections is going to do anything to deter the little *******.

[Burninator]

If this kid is so bad that the mother is willing to charge him with a crime, why is she buying him a Ninentdo Wii?

[OilersBaby]

I wonder how old the boy was...the mom was only 27, so the kid couldnt have been that old. Such a brat at such a young age...geez.

[Table 5]

see, this is why i dont go shopping till the 23rd. It cuts down on those pesky present thefts...

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by OilersBaby

I wonder how old the boy was...the mom was only 27, so the kid couldnt have been that old. Such a brat at such a young age...geez.

I don't know, the Great Grand mother was only 63, so this kinda strikes me as the kind of family that is having kids relatively young.

[Flashpoint]

So why is she getting the little delinquent a Gameboy? Uhhh, how about not rewarding bad behaviour? Nice that the cops have enough free time to look into crap like this...

[redforever]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Wow he dosen't sound like a great kid, but a lot of that comes from the parent. If that was my kid, all of his gifts would have gone back to the store, and his gift would have been a snow shovel and the job of clearing the entire south east of snow.

I don't think putting him in the care of the department of corrections is going to do anything to deter the little *******.

First of all, I dont think you should equate XMas gifts as a reward for good behaviour. XMas is a time for sharing love and I think presents are given out of love for that person. there are other ways to punish or reward behaviour.

To me, this sounds like a desperate mother, a mother who knows she has lost control and can not influence the situation anymore, and it was a cry for help.

Until we have walked one step in the shoes of someone who is so desperate, I think we should hold back judgement a bit. Remember folks, this is the XMas season, we are to be thinking peaceful and loving thoughts, not damning an individual until we know all of the heartbreak that went into this mother's decision.

[CaptainCrunch]

ok, then I would take the gifts back, get the cash, and donate it to charity and give the receipt and a nice card to the spoiled little bugger. That was he can learn that christmas shouldn't be about receiving loot.

There is too much of our culture focused around entitlement "I should get this PS3, I should get this Wii" whatever. The morals of christmas died around a hundred years ago when the first Hudson's Bay Christmas Catalogue came out.

If any of you read the Baby Blue cartoons in the sun they nailed it down exactly when the kids instead of making a gift list wrote one line. We want every gift in the world. And when the dad explained that they should get coal, and explained that coal was a rock that burned, the kids wanted that too.

Its pretty clear to me that the mother was unwilling or unable to clamp down on the kid, and made a misguided attempt to set him straight, but probably went way overboard.

If anyone should get a lump in the stocking it is this kid. On the naughty list.

Presents are given out of love, I agree, but to me giving a misbehaving kid a $300 gaming console isn't a gift of love, its bribery.

When I was growing up, how we behaved and the grades that we got obviously effected the gifts that we got.

[redforever]

Presents are given out of love, I agree, but to me giving a misbehaving kid a $300 gaming console isn't a gift of love, its bribery.

Who knows if it was bribery as much as fear. When you have a child like this, you get desperate, it is not as clear black and white from the inside lookout out as it is from the outside looking in.

Yes, the child might be a little bugger, perhaps the home environment is not what it should be, usually children are a product of their environment, but there are many factors that produce children with severe behavioural problems. The story makes the news cause of the age of the child and the gift in question.

When I was growing up, how we behaved and the grades that we got obviously effected the gifts that we got.

Imagine then the poor child, who is brilliant at school, never steps out of line, and does not receive a gift because the family is too poor to buy one. How bad they must feel. Life is cruel too many times. Let's keep the spirit of XMas in our hearts and not judge others.

[Mr.Coffee]

This reminds me of Arrested Development...

when the dad is always "teaching a lesson". And then pursues to teach his son a lesson for his son teaching his grandson a lesson.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by redforever

Imagine then the poor child, who is brilliant at school, never steps out of line, and does not receive a gift because the family is too poor to buy one. How bad they must feel. Life is cruel too many times. Let's keep the spirit of XMas in our hearts and not judge others.

This is the meat of what I'm saying to some extent. I was young when we had the national energy program, and my parents lost thier business and with it the house and the car. Thier savings and pensions were basically toasted. And christmas' was a bit on the lean side. But it didn't matter what we got, because we knew that it could have been a bag of socks but it was given for the right reasons.

I guess what gets me really blue at christmas time is the fact that I hear things like "make sure you spend over x dollars on a gift for cousin Billy", or "I want that $500.00 play station for christmas" or whatever. To me Christmas is the most depressing time of the year because its true meaning was killed and buried a long time ago. Now its about the perceived value of the girt as far as dollar wise and prestige wise, and not about the sentiments of the gift.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by redforever

Who knows if it was bribery as much as fear. When you have a child like this, you get desperate, it is not as clear black and white from the inside lookout out as it is from the outside looking in.

Yes, the child might be a little bugger, perhaps the home environment is not what it should be, usually children are a product of their environment, but there are many factors that produce children with severe behavioural problems. The story makes the news cause of the age of the child and the gift in question.



Imagine then the poor child, who is brilliant at school, never steps out of line, and does not receive a gift because the family is too poor to buy one. How bad they must feel. Life is cruel too many times. Let's keep the spirit of XMas in our hearts and not judge others.

I hate to say this but what is with the feel good/bad Christmas spirt crap? You say that Chistmas is about sharing love (which apparently is only able to be done though the use of presents and other material goods) yet you ignore the fact that sometimes what is necessary is for a good kick in the ass. Coddling little *******s such as this little ******* leads to a situation where the little *******s feel as though there are no consiquences for their actions and as such are free to act in any way that they see fit. I have worked with little *******s in the past and I know that sometimes they have bad parents and a poor upbringing but that can only be used as a crutch for so long until the rug is pulled out from under them and they are faced with the reality that this is the world they live in, and no ones boss cares that your mother had you when she wasn't old enough and that your great-grandmother is younger than most other kids grandmothers. The only thing they will get is a boot in the ass or a pink slip in the hand.

Does it suck that it had to come to this - sure. But are there worse things for the kid than to be steered in the right direction at what I hope is a young age. This just shows me that the mother can at least admit to herself that she does need help which is the best thing for the kid and likely the mother at the same time.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

This is the meat of what I'm saying to some extent. I was young when we had the national energy program, and my parents lost thier business and with it the house and the car. Thier savings and pensions were basically toasted. And christmas' was a bit on the lean side. But it didn't matter what we got, because we knew that it could have been a bag of socks but it was given for the right reasons.

I guess what gets me really blue at christmas time is the fact that I hear things like "make sure you spend over x dollars on a gift for cousin Billy", or "I want that $500.00 play station for christmas" or whatever. To me Christmas is the most depressing time of the year because its true meaning was killed and buried a long time ago. Now its about the perceived value of the girt as far as dollar wise and prestige wise, and not about the sentiments of the gift.

I agree 100% when I was growing up our family was never in a situation where it was difficult to put food on the table or get new clothing but at the same time as kids we never got the crap that kids are getting these days and sometimes I was envious of the kid down the street who got the fancy gifts but 15 year later I don't give a damn about those gifts what I really remember is Christmas morning and being with the family. Things that might seem important at the time have an odd habit of proving themselves to be completely worthless down the road and the things that you take for granted and brush off are the things that make the longest lasting impressions.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

I hate to say this but what is with the feel good/bad Christmas spirt crap? You say that Chistmas is about sharing love (which apparently is only able to be done though the use of presents and other material goods) yet you ignore the fact that sometimes what is necessary is for a good kick in the ass. Coddling little *******s such as this little ******* leads to a situation where the little *******s feel as though there are no consiquences for their actions and as such are free to act in any way that they see fit. I have worked with little *******s in the past and I know that sometimes they have bad parents and a poor upbringing but that can only be used as a crutch for so long until the rug is pulled out from under them and they are faced with the reality that this is the world they live in, and no ones boss cares that your mother had you when she wasn't old enough and that your great-grandmother is younger than most other kids grandmothers. The only thing they will get is a boot in the ass or a pink slip in the hand.

Does it suck that it had to come to this - sure. But are there worse things for the kid than to be steered in the right direction at what I hope is a young age. This just shows me that the mother can at least admit to herself that she does need help which is the best thing for the kid and likely the mother at the same time.

How do we know that the child was coddled. We do know however, that at the present time, the child has severe behavioural problems. And as I said before, there are many factors that produce children like this.

Has mental illness ever crossed your mind? Now there is a heartbreak for you. The child has problems, the child exhibits problems, the child exhibits severe problems, the parents know there is a problem, the parents try to deal with the problem, the parents try with all their hearts to deal with the problem, the parents become desperate to get help for the child with the problem, the child is put on behaviour modification drugs, the problem persists because too many times, the problem is not correctly diagnosed.

How often do you think of children with mental illness? First thoughts are, if that child had ever been disciplined in their life, the parents would not have the problem they have today. That child needs a whack on the posterior.

We had a niece come live with us for 2 years. She went through the cycle too, became a ward of the province of Saskatchewan, became totally estranged from her mother. She got kicked out of school, had to find an alternate school and thank God for a very astute teacher there who thought my niece exhibited classic symptoms of bi-polar disorder. It was that teacher who got our niece to a doctor and that doctor got her to a hospital for testing. Upon testing, they found out what her chemical imbalance was, she is now on medication, will be for the rest of her life. By the time she came to live with us, she had gone through the counselling, she was on her medication, she takes her medication like a trooper, she finished her highschool and is now a contributing member of society and you would never know she is bi-polar. But she is one of the bright lights, one of the feel good stories. How many end up on the streets of our major cities?

And how many become yet another suicide statistic. That too is rampant in our society today, and the province of Alberta, with its big rat race, hurry, hurry, hurry, pressure, pressure, pressure, does not do its youth a favor in too many circumstances.

We have been to the funerals of 3 youths, all the result of death by suicide. Try telling those parents, those parents who loved their children with all their hearts, who tried everything they possibly could to help their children, who had to bury their children in the end, that all their children needed was more discipline.

[OILFAN #81]

Originally Posted by OilersBaby

I wonder how old the boy was...the mom was only 27, so the kid couldnt have been that old. Such a brat at such a young age...geez.

Speaking of which.......

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by redforever

How do we know that the child was coddled. We do know however, that at the present time, the child has severe behavioural problems. And as I said before, there are many factors that produce children like this.

I didn't mean that the kid had been coddled up to this point but your suggestion that he be given the gifts anyways no matter what his crap behaviours had been in the past due to the spirit of Christmas would be coddling the youth in question. There are many factors that do produce kids such as this.

Originally Posted by redforever

Has mental illness ever crossed your mind? Now there is a heartbreak for you. The child has problems, the child exhibits problems, the child exhibits severe problems, the parents know there is a problem, the parents try to deal with the problem, the parents try with all their hearts to deal with the problem, the parents become desperate to get help for the child with the problem, the child is put on behaviour modification drugs, the problem persists because too many times, the problem is not correctly diagnosed.

The first thing that crossed my mind was FASD which generally results in ADHD and a whole swack of other issues. That being said behaviour modification needs to start as soon as possible and this is one way in which that can be done. The child obviously has a number of issues regarding impulive behaviour. That all being said I don't know what your little rant has to do with the issue at hand - the kid acted out and was punished as a result.

Originally Posted by redforever

How often do you think of children with mental illness? First thoughts are, if that child had ever been disciplined in their life, the parents would not have the problem they have today. That child needs a whack on the posterior.

So you are in agreement - there should be some form of punishment. Now what if that punishment doesn't work, do you keep doing the same thing over and over again even though the behaviours are escalating into physical aggression?

Originally Posted by redforever

We had a niece come live with us for 2 years. She went through the cycle too, became a ward of the province of Saskatchewan, became totally estranged from her mother. She got kicked out of school, had to find an alternate school and thank God for a very astute teacher there who thought my niece exhibited classic symptoms of bi-polar disorder. It was that teacher who got our niece to a doctor and that doctor got her to a hospital for testing. Upon testing, they found out what her chemical imbalance was, she is now on medication, will be for the rest of her life. By the time she came to live with us, she had gone through the counselling, she was on her medication, she takes her medication like a trooper, she finished her highschool and is now a contributing member of society and you would never know she is bi-polar. But she is one of the bright lights, one of the feel good stories. How many end up on the streets of our major cities?

Ok so you are in favour of awarding the youth to the state then?

Originally Posted by redforever

And how many become yet another suicide statistic. That too is rampant in our society today, and the province of Alberta, with its big rat race, hurry, hurry, hurry, pressure, pressure, pressure, does not do its youth a favor in too many circumstances.

What? The kid acted out.... this wasn't even in Alberta?

Originally Posted by redforever

We have been to the funerals of 3 youths, all the result of death by suicide. Try telling those parents, those parents who loved their children with all their hearts, who tried everything they possibly could to help their children, who had to bury their children in the end, that all their children needed was more discipline.

And isn't that what is being done? This is one of those learning experiences which counts as discipline is it not?

[redforever]

I didn't mean that the kid had been coddled up to this point but your suggestion that he be given the gifts anyways no matter what his crap behaviours had been in the past due to the spirit of Christmas would be coddling the youth in question. There are many factors that do produce kids such as this.

I never ever suggested that the kid be given any gifts. All I ever did say was that gifts should not equated to a reward to good behaviour and that other means be used to discipline children.

The first thing that crossed my mind was FASD which generally results in ADHD and a whole swack of other issues. That being said behaviour modification needs to start as soon as possible and this is one way in which that can be done. The child obviously has a number of issues regarding impulive behaviour. That all being said I don't know what your little rant has to do with the issue at hand - the kid acted out and was punished as a result.

If behavioural problems are a result of mental illness, you have to treat the illness, which usually is a chemical imbalance, before you can treat the behavioural problem. With proper treatment of the mental illness, the objectionable behaviours usually resolve themselves. Unfortunately, we are just at the tip of the iceberg regarding the treatment of mental illness and too many still fall through the cracks.

I am not suggesting to ignore the objectionable behaviour, but I am suggesting that the objectionable behaviour can from factors other than poor disciplining of the child in question.

There is no question however, that the earlier a child is treated, no matter if for mental illness, physical illness, behavioural problems, the easier it makes resolution of the matter.

So you are in agreement - there should be some form of punishment. Now what if that punishment doesn't work, do you keep doing the same thing over and over again even though the behaviours are escalating into physical aggression?

I never said I was against discipline of the child or any child. We all need controls, adults and children alike, for our society to funcition. No, I do not sanction repeating the same form of discipline over and over and over, nothing repeated that way ever remains effective. And yes, physical violence often goes along with behavioural problems. Keep in mind, all parents are human, some provide a much better environment for their children to grow up in, some are able to realize and get help from others who can help resolve the problem, some are caught up in other factors, dont have the means or the knowledge at their disposal to deal with the issue. Sad isn't it? But it is a reality.

Ok so you are in favour of awarding the youth to the state then?

Now where on earth did this statement come from? All I did was mention the fact, that my niece was made a ward of the state. By the way, it was at her own request, as the family unit at that point in time was beyond repair. When external factors like that exist, yes, I do believe in state intervention if the welfare of the child is at risk.

And isn't that what is being done? This is one of those learning experiences which counts as discipline is it not?

I dont think you have read or understood the context of my last statement. I said, we were to the funerals of 3 youths, all the result of suicide. Were there behavioural problems in existence? No, there were not. There was never a matter of discipline in these cases. Two had developed schizophrenia, the other was bi-polar.

However, to the untrained eye, perhaps an outsider will notice changes. They might say, well if that parent had ever disciplined that child, they would not have the problems they have today. And I am saying, if you would ever make a statement to the parents of these 3 youths, they would be heartbroken. No one tried harder than they did. The harsh reality is, you cant reach and help them all. If you wish to talk about discipline in a matter like this, yeah, I guess the parents learned something alright. They learned that all the love in the world, all of the medicines available in the world, none was enough to save their child. Harsh lesson for the parents? yeah, I guess so. Hope you never have a loved one who has to go through that.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by redforever

I never ever suggested that the kid be given any gifts. All I ever did say was that gifts should not equated to a reward to good behaviour and that other means be used to discipline children.

Well at this point why not use the gifts as a form of leverage over the youth? Everything else doesn't appear to have worked and while some feel that Christmas is sacred, the kid ruined it already so why not.

Originally Posted by redforever

If behavioural problems are a result of mental illness, you have to treat the illness, which usually is a chemical imbalance, before you can treat the behavioural problem. With proper treatment of the mental illness, the objectionable behaviours usually resolve themselves. Unfortunately, we are just at the tip of the iceberg regarding the treatment of mental illness and too many still fall through the cracks.

Meds aren't nearly as effective as you might think they are and there will always be issues regarding behaviours.

Originally Posted by redforever

I am not suggesting to ignore the objectionable behaviour, but I am suggesting that the objectionable behaviour can from factors other than poor disciplining of the child in question.

Well with a news story like this we don't know what else that has been attempted in the past and from the sounds of it the behaviours he exhibits are very serious behaviours.

Originally Posted by redforever

There is no question however, that the earlier a child is treated, no matter if for mental illness, physical illness, behavioural problems, the easier it makes resolution of the matter.

And that is what they are attempting to do right now is it not? What is it, one day to start a habit - 24 days to break it?

Originally Posted by redforever

I never said I was against discipline of the child or any child. We all need controls, adults and children alike, for our society to funcition. No, I do not sanction repeating the same form of discipline over and over and over, nothing repeated that way ever remains effective. And yes, physical violence often goes along with behavioural problems. Keep in mind, all parents are human, some provide a much better environment for their children to grow up in, some are able to realize and get help from others who can help resolve the problem, some are caught up in other factors, dont have the means or the knowledge at their disposal to deal with the issue. Sad isn't it? But it is a reality.

I hate to ask this but what? The kid was a little prick and didn't follow instructions regarding the christmas gift and as a result his christmas gifts were taken away from him, which in combination with other events lead to the mother phoning the police (who had been called before I assume based on the youths history of punching a police officer)

Originally Posted by redforever

Now where on earth did this statement come from? All I did was mention the fact, that my niece was made a ward of the state. By the way, it was at her own request, as the family unit at that point in time was beyond repair. When external factors like that exist, yes, I do believe in state intervention if the welfare of the child is at risk.

Well it sounds like this is one messed up family unit so would it then not be best to remove the youth from the family in question so that the youth can recieve the best services possible, similar to your niece?

Originally Posted by redforever

I dont think you have read or understood the context of my last statement. I said, we were to the funerals of 3 youths, all the result of suicide. Were there behavioural problems in existence? No, there were not. There was never a matter of discipline in these cases. Two had developed schizophrenia, the other was bi-polar.

However, to the untrained eye, perhaps an outsider will notice changes. They might say, well if that parent had ever disciplined that child, they would not have the problems they have today. And I am saying, if you would ever make a statement to the parents of these 3 youths, they would be heartbroken. No one tried harder than they did. The harsh reality is, you cant reach and help them all. If you wish to talk about discipline in a matter like this, yeah, I guess the parents learned something alright. They learned that all the love in the world, all of the medicines available in the world, none was enough to save their child. Harsh lesson for the parents? yeah, I guess so. Hope you never have a loved one who has to go through that.

And that is what these parents are doing they are trying to use something as a punishment to stop their kid from going down the path where those other youth have gone before... plus I don't really see what suicide has to do with this case in the least.