Bush vs. Kerry

[troutman]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/08/...n.ap/index.html

A lackluster unemployment report and fresh questions about President Bush's rationale for invading Iraq frame the second face-to-face encounter Friday night between Bush and Sen. John Kerry.

Only the debate's moderator and the 15 to 20 people chosen to ask questions know what topics will be raised during the 90-minute town-hall session at Washington University.

The Massachusetts senator holds a slight lead nationally over Bush in an Associated Press-Ipsos poll released Thursday, reversing Bush's advantage from mid-September.

[Cowperson]

A Tim Russert preview, looking at the strategy of each camp.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5961048/

Is this a game thread?

Cowperson

[Bertuzzied]

Yes the DEbate game thread! Lets count out loud together how many "mixed messages" there will be tonite. I'm saying at least 15.

[Calgary Flames]

Originally posted by Bertuzzied@Oct 8 2004, 01:48 PM
Yes the DEbate game thread! Lets count out loud together how many "mixed messages" there will be tonite. I'm saying at least 15.

Or Missed Mexagges

[troutman]

Debate is scheduled for 7:00 pm MDT.

[MolsonInBothHands]

Will there be the flashing sirens and stuff to go along with each "mixed message"? If so, this just might be the most exciting thing I have planned for the evening. :geek:

[Bertuzzied]

Originally posted by MolsonInBothHands@Oct 8 2004, 08:51 PM
Will there be the flashing sirens and stuff to go along with each "mixed message"? If so, this just might be the most exciting thing I have planned for the evening. :geek:

I don't know. You'll have to ask shawnski! hehe.

[Flame On]

Originally posted by Cowperson@Oct 8 2004, 07:35 PM
A Tim Russert preview, looking at the strategy of each camp.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5961048/

Is this a game thread?

Cowperson

Do you think Bush is capable to look statesman like and collected? I mean he doesn't seem to be able to keep focus within a sentance he's speaking, why over the course of a whole debate, with the pressure of the Presidency on the line would he be able to??

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by Flame On+Oct 8 2004, 10:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Flame On @ Oct 8 2004, 10:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Cowperson@Oct 8 2004, 07:35 PM
A Tim Russert preview, looking at the strategy of each camp.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5961048/

Is this a game thread?#

Cowperson

Do you think Bush is capable to look statesman like and collected? I mean he doesn't seem to be able to keep focus within a sentance he's speaking, why over the course of a whole debate, with the pressure of the Presidency on the line would he be able to?? [/b][/quote]
Are you directing that at me?

Judging from a week ago, Bush'll (Bushell?) get demolished given all the ammo landing in Kerry's lap.

If he makes a comeback, however, he wouldn't be the first sitting president to do so in those circumstances. I think someone mentioned Ronald Reagan lost his first debate against Walter Mondale and then came back smokin'.

In the first debate, Mondale was viewed as the more effective speaker and Reagan was said to have appeared tired and sometimes confused. In the second debate, Mondale failed to gain further ground. Reagan successfully diffused the issue of his age during the second debate when he said, "I want you to know that also I will not make age an issue of this campaign. I am not going to exploit, for political purposes, my opponent's youth and inexperience."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1232477/posts

For amusement, a transcript of the first 1984 debate.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/showd...hp?debateid=11

The second debate:

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/showd...hp?debateid=12

(PS: That second debate will take some people back to some zingers on the CIA, Nicarauga and nuclear missiles!!).

Bush is in a lot more trouble than Reagan though. I will await developments with interest.

Cowperson

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by Cowperson+Oct 8 2004, 06:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cowperson @ Oct 8 2004, 06:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Do you think Bush is capable to look statesman like and collected? I mean he doesn't seem to be able to keep focus within a sentance he's speaking, why over the course of a whole debate, with the pressure of the Presidency on the line would he be able to??

Are you directing that at me?

Judging from a week ago, Bush'll (Bushell?) get demolished given all the ammo landing in Kerry's lap.

If he makes a comeback, however, he wouldn't be the first sitting president to do so in those circumstances. I think someone mentioned Ronald Reagan lost his first debate against Walter Mondale and then came back smokin'.

In the first debate, Mondale was viewed as the more effective speaker and Reagan was said to have appeared tired and sometimes confused. In the second debate, Mondale failed to gain further ground. Reagan successfully diffused the issue of his age during the second debate when he said, "I want you to know that also I will not make age an issue of this campaign. I am not going to exploit, for political purposes, my opponent's youth and inexperience."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1232477/posts

For amusement, a transcript of the first 1984 debate.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/showd...hp?debateid=11

The second debate:

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/showd...hp?debateid=12

(PS: That second debate will take some people back to some zingers on the CIA, Nicarauga and nuclear missiles!!).

Bush is in a lot more trouble than Reagan though. I will await developments with interest.

Cowperson [/b][/quote]
So I'm reading through that Reagan v. Mondale thing and it struck me -- here I am, a Canadian, reading the transcripts of a 20 year old debate between Reagan and some guy everyone has forgotten about. Meanwhile, there was some high drama in Canadian politics just this week that I essentially ignored, there is going to be a provincial election as early as next month, and we are a week away from a local election and I haven't even heard of a single candidate that isn't the sitting mayor.

In other words, maybe I should pay at least some attention to my own backyard. But I won't. It's too boring.

[300spartans]

According to Bush, Canada=3rdworld=our drugs will kill you!.

[Daradon]

Kerry's finishing his questions strong, but the Prez is looking good too.

Heh, it kinda is like a game thread isn't it? We need those sirens up. Maybe when he mentions Poland too. Heard it once already but was on the phone helping my sister through a computer problem so may have missed it a few other times.

Any thoughts on who's 'winning' the debate so far? I would give a SLIGHT edge to Kerry, but what he says just makes more sense to me on most points, although there have been a few things Bush has said that have been quite powerful.

I feel like KErry is pushing his plan more, probably a real good thing for him given a lot of people's main criticism about his campaign thus far.

[JiriHrdina]

I don't know how strong Bush is looking. In fact, I think he looks flustered at times. A couple of things particularly stand out:

1. When the person asked about why the Patriot Act should restrict their personal rights Bush didn't answer the question he just said "it's not restricting your rights".
2. In the question about the supreme court appointment Bush was making the point about the constitution not supporting slavery and started saying "what the constitution does say is..." and then stammered like he couldn't remember what it says.
3. His answer regarding stem cell research was decisive I guess but how George W can stand there and talk about not wanting to save lives by destroying lives is beyond me. See the news lately George - your destroying lives in this little war of yours.

Anyhoo I haven't been impressed w/ Bush at all. Kerry's been very good at getting his points across, is more polished and seems to be connecting more with the audience.

My 2 cents.

[Daradon]

Looks like the new' Bushism' for today describing Kerry is, 'you can run, but you can't hide.'

What is he even talking about? On a few of them, it was a little weak...

[Daradon]

Agree with you Jiri, I guess I just came in on his better moments between my phone call. He seems to be ending more and more poorly. Looks flustered like you said and a little tired. You are right with Kerry connecting.

[troutman]

I would be interested to know from our American posters whether their decision is based more on the individuals or on the partys they represent.

Based on the first two debates it seems clear to me who would be the better President, but it is not as simple as that. People surely also consider what each party stands for, so I'm not sure how much importance can be attached to who "wins" these debates.

[JiriHrdina]

I agree troutman but I think one of the interesting things about Bush is that its very difficult to get past his personality which is why so many people either think he's great or loathe him.

Personally I can't stand him. His arrogance and smug attitude really get to me. And I fully admit that this has caused me to be very bias towards anything that comes out of his mouth.

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by troutman@Oct 9 2004, 03:07 AM
I would be interested to know from our American posters whether their decision is based more on the individuals or on the partys they represent.

Based on the first two debates it seems clear to me who would be the better President, but it is not as simple as that. People surely also consider what each party stands for, so I'm not sure how much importance can be attached to who "wins" these debates.

I would say there's about 10% of Americans out there who haven't made up their mind. They're trying to sway a limited number of people. I don't think either candidate has topped 55% in polling in the last year.

Last week, Bush got throttled pretty good.

Obviously, he was much stronger this time. Night and day from the slumping, hesitating chump of last week. For his constituency, he delivered a solid performance and put in the blows on Kerry his supporters wanted to see.

I thought Kerry was on his heels at times but obviously got in the solid shots that his constituency had heard the week before.

Story of this debate might be Kerry was about the same and Bush stepped to the plate in a way he didn't last week. It made for an interesting debate.

Given the news events of the last week, it will be interesting to see if Bush can sway those undecideds or win back some of the support he lost. The news events of the day might be the anchor around his ankles.

I agree the "Canadian drugs from Canada are unsafe"was hilarious. However, I've seen thought out there that if Kerry has his way, Canada will be stripped of its cheaper drug supply and we'll be hard pressed to keep prices low ourselves. In other words, its kind of a pipe dream to suggest Canada, a country of 33 million, can solve the drug supply issues of a country of 300 million. Both are kind of whistling in the dark. Comments?

Cowperson

[RougeUnderoos]

Strike two! ?

I think so. All the king's coaches and all the king's men couldn't convince him not to scowl and shake his head again.

Well maybe not quite as bad this time, but jeebus George figure it out. Don't smirk, scowl, shake your head or act at all flustered. It just looks bad. Kerry may look like Lurch but at least he doesn't look like a child after the teacher tells him he got the question wrong.

My favorite moment was the environmental question and Georgie had obviously rehearsed this one and on the top of his list was "we reduced diesel emissions from diesel off-road vehicles by %90". Well thank god they did that. All through the Clinton years there was that uproar about all the smog caused by the hundreds of millions of people driving their quads to work. I'm glad they finally did something about that.

On that same question he also made some strange comment that seemed to say "we don't cut down enough trees and that is damaging the environment".

I'm not familiar with all that stuff, but when asked "what will you do for the environment", it seems you might want to answer with something other than "cut down more trees".

He also said "New-cular" and my personal favorite "Veee-hickle" and also I think he used the phrase "it's been on the internets".

On the other side, the guy I cheer for was really gasping for air with parts of the stem-cell research answer, especially when he couldn't spit out the word quadriplegic or spinal injury. That dragged on for a few seconds.

That very intense young woman with the anti-abortion question really had him floundering at times as well. What was with that girl? If she was talking to me like that from up that close I'd think she was about to attack me, or at least burst into tears. She was intense, that one. Georgie calmed her down though with his simple answers to complicated questions.

[Cowperson]

"it's been on the internets".

I agree. That was hilarious. To die laughing for. Especially when he went on to talk about relying on science to help the environment.

And what was up with Kerry and that answer on abortions? He might have had intent and maybe we can figure it out in looking at the transcript, but that sounded like a lot of gibberish. Bush skewered him with his three word answer. And to him it IS a simple issue.

They both had their gaffes.

Cowperson