Calgary Transit, Sorry for the delay.

[Barnes]

Once again, the C-Trains where completly ****ed up again at evening rush hour. What is it going to take for this city to realize they need to make investments and make this system work for the citizens that currently rely on the C-Train. Their 20 year plan will be 22 years too late. They try to justify that ridership has not increased to significantly ramp up expansion plans yet, you can not physically fit anymore people on trains during rush hour. They claim that users will be relieved soon yet, a 4 car train service will not be introduced untill 2013. I commend Calgarians for having the most popular LRT systems in North America even though city government shows zero interest in making the system any better other than political lip service and useless expansion plans into the North East, North West and Deep South.

[Red Mile Style]

I gotta give credit where credit's due.

When I was at the United Nations Commission on Sustainable Development, the City of Calgary was mentioned - in front of the entire world, literally - from a representative of the UN Developmental Program because of it's emission-free c-train and reduction in energy consumption for street lighting, making it the most energy efficent city in North America. Calgary transit (specifically the c-train) is something Calgarians should really take pride in. It's being used as a model for developing more sustainable communities around the world.

Crowded c-trains are a pain in the ass - especially in the winter when everyone is coughing, sneezing, weezing, sniffling... but this is probably just growing pains. With the cost of construction being as high as it is, to do what you're suggesting would probably make the cost of taking Calgary transit skyrocket or raise taxes - neither of which sounds too appealling to anyone.

I agree, it totally blows. But it's still pretty decent.

[Barnes]

It's great that the UN likes the fact that its powered by wind (as do I) but that dioesn't change the fact that Calgary transit does not recognize that if they build it, they will come. I am so glad they are expanding the current lines so that people from Okotoks and Airdrie have to drive less to get to a station while not increaing capacity for at least another 6 years.

[kermitology]

The whole C-Train system is a mess.. I've got a friend who's project managing a lot of the new expansion and he shakes his head at the way that it's being worked on. The trains are DC trains running on AC lines.. it's brutal. Lots of waste actually.

[MatsNaslund]

Originally Posted by Barnes

Once again, the C-Trains where completly ****ed up again at evening rush hour. .

There's a reason why this happened AGAIN. These type of things will probably happen again too. A few days when it started to snow during the start of rush hour there was some girl with her MP3 player on and walking near 61 Ave S.E. near where the C-train runs to Chinook station. She didn't see the train and didn't HEAR the ding ding ding sound of the crossing arms and got hit. The C-train travels at speeds up to 80 KM/h and given the weight of the train itself and all its passengers onboard it would need significant distance to stop. It is a little like jumping in front of a tractor-trailer travelling at high speed with a good sized load and hoping to walk away from it. So after she was hit, the C-train driver had to stop and wait for Transit to investigate as well as emergency personnel to show up on scene do their thing. It took 5 hours to get it all cleared up. I would bet that something similar happened today.

The biggest problem is that the system works on the principle that where there is one train another cannot enter. With 5 minute service that means in effect that if 1 train is stopped for any reason it screws up the schedule of the entire system. Even if they have trains turn around at a partictular station they will never get back on schedule during that particular rush hour. The worst is downtown on 7 Ave when some idiot either jaywalks or a car runs a light and gets hit. Then all the trains: NE,NW, and South are going to be late. So think long and hard before you press the Red 'Help' Button on the train because the driver actually has to come out and check it out himself and if needed will ask for and wait for Police,EMS or whoever to show up and the train will not move until the problem is solved. Neither will any other trains move on that line and in the case of downtown: none of them will move.

[MatsNaslund]

Originally Posted by kermitology

. The trains are DC trains running on AC lines.. it's brutal. Lots of waste actually.

The Trains run off of 600 Vdc. The braking system uses sand. It is most likely that the lines are AC because it is easier to store and transport the electricity as AC rather than as DC. The electricity used for the trains is generated at a wind farm in Pincher Creek. That is the exact reason why Enmax provides 120 Vac to homes when in fact almost everything inside the home actually runs on DC (with some notable exceptions).

[icarus]

Does anyone know the reason Calgary never built a subway? They considered it at one time and there is even an abandoned tunnel from the 1980s built in contemplation for such veering off from the main line of the tunnel south of 9th ave. The secret tunnel heads under city hall but has been sealed off. There is also a network of tunnels under certain downtown sidewalks.

[Resolute 14]

Cost.

If they built a subway style, Calgary would have a one armed freak that isnt half as useful as the current line is - much like Edmonton currently has. They went underground, we didnt.

[Freeway]

Originally Posted by icarus

Does anyone know the reason Calgary never built a subway? They considered it at one time and there is even an abandoned tunnel from the 1980s built in contemplation for such veering off from the main line of the tunnel south of 9th ave. The secret tunnel heads under city hall but has been sealed off. There is also a network of tunnels under certain downtown sidewalks.

The water table is too high downtown to do so. There are allegedly plans to build the western part of the train line (up Bow Trail to Signal Hill) partially underground, as the water table isn't as high.

[Looger]

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

Cost.

If they built a subway style, Calgary would have a one armed freak that isnt half as useful as the current line is - much like Edmonton currently has. They went underground, we didnt.

they tried.

there's that tunnel you can see, to your right when you're going south from city hall station to victoria park stampede.

i hear that they kept caving in, as downtown is built on a riverbed.

doesn't bode well if we ever have an earthquake!

as to the topic in general the c-train is pretty decent, compared to say vancouver's (just now finally going to the burbs), or edmonton's (doesn't go the west end at all), and it being above ground means it can go up crowchild without spending billions of dollars and years and years (though the city may be proving me wrong on that one).

yes, it's crowded at rush times, and yes, more trains would alleviate that. but the infrastructure as it is in place can be, and is being, expanded, without the ridiculous amount of cement and time required to expand the skytrain.

[RogerWilco]

Originally Posted by icarus

Does anyone know the reason Calgary never built a subway? They considered it at one time and there is even an abandoned tunnel from the 1980s built in contemplation for such veering off from the main line of the tunnel south of 9th ave. The secret tunnel heads under city hall but has been sealed off. There is also a network of tunnels under certain downtown sidewalks.

Because a subway costs alot more to build. The system would be even smaller and take much longer to build if we had a subway.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Barnes

It's great that the UN likes the fact that its powered by wind (as do I) but that dioesn't change the fact that Calgary transit does not recognize that if they build it, they will come. I am so glad they are expanding the current lines so that people from Okotoks and Airdrie have to drive less to get to a station while not increaing capacity for at least another 6 years.

That's a false assumption. They won't have room for four car trains for another 6 years, but they're adding 40 more cars to their fleet (about another 1/3) in order to increase the capacity. Trains will then run at a higher frequency. I believe they want the first ones out in the new year.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by MatsNaslund

The Trains run off of 600 Vdc. The braking system uses sand. It is most likely that the lines are AC because it is easier to store and transport the electricity as AC rather than as DC. The electricity used for the trains is generated at a wind farm in Pincher Creek. That is the exact reason why Enmax provides 120 Vac to homes when in fact almost everything inside the home actually runs on DC (with some notable exceptions).

Yeah I know exactly what they run on.. And I know the properties of AC as transmission (I'm an electrical engineer) but the trains are set up VERY poorly. I wish I could remember all the things that my friend was telling me about them, but as an engineer they make you shake your head.

I think the trains are actually supposed to run at 750V but they run them at 600 for some odd reason.. A lot of resistance to change by the "old guard" within the city.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by FireFly

That's a false assumption. They won't have room for four car trains for another 6 years, but they're adding 40 more cars to their fleet (about another 1/3) in order to increase the capacity. Trains will then run at a higher frequency. I believe they want the first ones out in the new year.

The capacity that these cars will add will improve service on off peak hours but do nothing to rush hour service. They already have 5 minutes between trains which is the maximum because of 7th ave.

Subways cost a lot to build. The high costs of C-Train accidents also cost a lot in terms of repairs, man hours, and opportunity costs. After so many years in service the 2 must be close to being the same amount.

[Barnes]

About the tunnels as well. There is a station under city hall. I have seen pictures of it and know the general area of how to access it from above. There is also an empty cavern with some tunnels below Bankers Hall buildings for a station. Penny Lane towers will also have these caverns built for the future. This is one reason why they can't save the facades of some of the current Penny Lane buildings, they just won't make it through the construction. There is one other building that has this but can't remember it.

Tunnels underground aren't rare in Calgary. The water table is a rather moot point. Cities like Montreal, New York, Toronto, Boston all have high water tables but have somehow managed to build underground. True different rocks, but it can and has been done here.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by Barnes

Tunnels underground aren't rare in Calgary. The water table is a rather moot point. Cities like Montreal, New York, Toronto, Boston all have high water tables but have somehow managed to build underground. True different rocks, but it can and has been done here.

Yeah it seems strange to me that a number of cities famously built on swamps (Berlin, Washington DC, Jersey City) all have subways.

[Rhettzky]

There was an accident just before chinook station. I was on the train behind the one that got the crossing gate stuck in it's wheels and it took 35 minutes to get from Erlton Stampede to 39th Avenue Station.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Looger

as to the topic in general the c-train is pretty decent, compared to say vancouver's (just now finally going to the burbs)

Well I lived in Calgary until a year and a half ago and I can say that the Skytrain in Vancouver is a LOT better than the C-Train in Calgary. Very few delays, it never has to stop for traffic, pretty much no risk of accidents involving cars or people because it's above or below street level. They don't even need operators, the trains run automatically.

Transit in Calgary is a bit of a disaster if you ask me. It's far easier to move around the sprawl that is Vancouver and surrounding suburbs.

[Looger]

the skytrain is better in concept, as, like you say, it does not have to deal with traffic whatsoever - also the distances in vancouver really aren't that huge.

but the growth is snail-slow and VERY expensive.

factor in the uniquely vancouver-style 'municipal' management and we have one of the biggest disasters of all of BC's long-term devlopment plans.

it's been a running joke to many in BC for awhile, right up there with the separate zones in vancouver's transit system. nothing like paying 8 bucks one way.

it's finally going to the outside burbs, what kills me is that this system is a decade PLUS behind schedule.

[TheCommodoreAfro]

Living in the city with the most effective and efficient (though not green) transit system in the world, I cringe when I think about having to take the C-train. The biggest bottleneck in the system is the fact that the train has to yeild to pedestrian and normal commuter traffic. If taking the train was faster to work/home than driving, you'd start to see people use it - rather simple really. Underground or a raised system downtown would have been a better system.
The other thing they should take a look at is building parallel track so that during rush hours they could put express trains on the routes that would only stop at a few of the stations - hence decreasing the actual time spent in a commute.

The system is going to be hard to work as Calgary gets larger, I fear. The whole green aspect, however, is really nice though.