An ominous drone in the Gaza sky

[Cowperson]

This should stir up the Palestinian/Israeli feud on this board.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6204353/

Cowperson

[Looger]

the die was cast a decade ago.

a shame that the ultra-right-wing settlers have so much power over the political process in the knesset, because the palestinians did in fact 'lay off' for a while there and give the whole thing a chance.

contrary to what many people in the last like thread said, there was in fact a community effort on the part of the palestinians who were sick of life under occupation and wanted a way out, any way out.

then the settlements started to go up at a frantic pace.

now the only way out for them is to struggle, because lying down and doing nothing got them in a worse position.

[Agamemnon]

Man, whenever I hear about UAV's armed with weapons systems, I can't help but think that Skynet is only a couple years away... creepy how the drones in T3 were probably only 5-10 years ahead of what they've got now.

This incursion is coming at a wierd time, considering Israel is unilaterally taking withdrawal actions right now. Maybe this offensive is a counterweight to their withdrawal? Sort of compensating for looking 'weak' because of their retreat by killing some people?

[Looger]

i'm not under any illusion that the idf is into indescriminate murder.

if their objectives include securing territory for a small period of time, though, civilian casualties always happen.

incidentally they are the only military to my knowledge that prescribes marijuana to its troops, for stress relief.

they're not cold-blooded killers, they're soldiers given a bad framework of orders and rules of engagement that quite often mean shooting civilians.

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by Looger@Oct 9 2004, 05:04 PM
the die was cast a decade ago.

a shame that the ultra-right-wing settlers have so much power over the political process in the knesset, because the palestinians did in fact 'lay off' for a while there and give the whole thing a chance.

contrary to what many people in the last like thread said, there was in fact a community effort on the part of the palestinians who were sick of life under occupation and wanted a way out, any way out.

then the settlements started to go up at a frantic pace.

now the only way out for them is to struggle, because lying down and doing nothing got them in a worse position.

Just an observation, but I think its the Palestinians who are getting tired of it all and less than enthusiastic about the wilderness where Yasser Arafat has led them.

But . . . . we don't have to guess. Here are some interesting results from this opinion poll of Palestinians on a wide range of topics taken in March 2004. Kind of chaotic in some ways, highlighting some resolve to continue to fight Israel, that suicide attacks are justified against Israeil civilians and 84% support a mutual cessation of attacks. Te contrast is that only 38% like Yasser Arafat as their leader and only 28% say the Palestinian Authority is doing a good job and 91% want political reforms within the Palestinian Authority and the vast majority want elections.

Seventy-four per cent support reconcilliation between Palestinians and Israeli's after a peace deal is arranged but 42% say its probably not possible to reconcile.

http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=20247

Peace will come when both sides are exhausted from the killing.

If I remember right, GW Bush and John Kerry agreed in debate one that Arafat is not a serious partner for peace.

Cowperson

[Looger]

arafat is...

reluctantly appointed leader of the palestinians, because he is the personification of their struggle.

the guy is made of teflon, and somehow, even after backing the wrong side in the gulf war, and constantly screwing stuff up, he always comes back to prominence.

even after precipitating that horrible business in jordan in 1970, and shirking many promises to the peace process, letalone his own people, he has huge support.

[I]
* In the occasion of the Arab Summit in Tunis, 86% of the
Palestinians believe that they cannot count on Arab States to
support them in regaining their rights.
[I]

saddest statement of all.

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by Cowperson@Oct 9 2004, 06:40 PM
Just an observation, but I think its the Palestinians who are getting tired of it all and less than enthusiastic about the wilderness where Yasser Arafat has led them.

True, though I would contend that things have never really been peachy for the Palestinians since this conflict has begun. The Israeli people are being worn down by this conflict, as is shown by their (half-hearted) attempts at peace. Obviously strategic security is of greater importance than tactical security, which is why they're still occupying territories where they don't need to be.

I'd wager the Palestinians are as miserable as they've always been, most of them right now were born into this conflict. The Israeli's are wearing down in their own personal Vietnam.