The Fight Against Scientology

[Blaster86]

BRING SCIENTOLOGY DOWN

Scientology has once again done their best to destroy any existence of people speaking out against their dangerous cult. They have worked hard to have this video removed from existence, but as normal, sane, not-crazy people, we can't let that happen. This needs to be spread around by any means necessary!

Spread the word, and bring this crazy cult down!

[The_Dude]

Tom cruise is weird

[Cheese]

why stop at Scientology? Lets add Catholics, Tali-Baptists, Muslims etc in as well. All were created by man and all are frauds.

[Knut]

Originally Posted by Cheese

why stop at Scientology? Lets add Catholics, Tali-Baptists, Muslims etc in as well. All were created by man and all are frauds.

One step at a time .... one step at a time.

[Resolute 14]

Dont forget atheists.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

Dont forget atheists.

What if you're nothing. Is that aetheist? I don't get why people who have no set of beliefs get categorized as 'believers in nothing'. I don't have a religious bone in my body, but I don't feel like I follow some kind of aetheist belief structure. Why is believing nothing (aetheism I guess) considered a 'religion' by people? I don't get it.

If you don't really care about religion/spirituality at all, are you an aetheist?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

What if you're nothing. Is that aetheist? I don't get why people who have no set of beliefs get categorized as 'believers in nothing'. I don't have a religious bone in my body, but I don't feel like I follow some kind of aetheist belief structure. Why is believing nothing (aetheism I guess) considered a 'religion' by people? I don't get it.

If you don't really care about religion/spirituality at all, are you an aetheist?

I would say if you don't believe in either religion or spirituality then...ya.

[Hemi-Cuda]

well Athiests have no church, no book of rules to tell them what to do, no magical fairy in the sky to guide them, and have no organized base whatsoever. so it would be pretty hard to take them down

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

What if you're nothing. Is that aetheist? I don't get why people who have no set of beliefs get categorized as 'believers in nothing'. I don't have a religious bone in my body, but I don't feel like I follow some kind of aetheist belief structure. Why is believing nothing (aetheism I guess) considered a 'religion' by people? I don't get it.

If you don't really care about religion/spirituality at all, are you an aetheist?

If you are in the "don't know, don't care" category then you are not athiest; you are agnostic. What exactly is the athiestic belief structure?

I don't know where exactly I fall. It's somewhere along the lines of "I don't think there is a God. But on the off chance that there _is_ an all-powerful-supreme-being then it doesn't much matter since he/she/it isn't worth worshipping".

Athiesm is considered a "religion" because some believe that it is faith-based. To believe that there is *NOT* a God takes as much faith as to believe that there *IS* a God. There may be no solid proof that God exists; there is also no solid proof that God does not exist. It's sorta like aliens. There is no solid proof that there is life on other planets, but to say that they don't exist is taking a solid leap of faith.

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

BRING SCIENTOLOGY DOWN

Scientology has once again done their best to destroy any existence of people speaking out against their dangerous cult. They have worked hard to have this video removed from existence, but as normal, sane, not-crazy people, we can't let that happen. This needs to be spread around by any means necessary!

Spread the word, and bring this crazy cult down!

That site is trying to be funny, or is it actually serious?

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

well Athiests have no church, no book of rules to tell them what to do, no magical fairy in the sky to guide them, and have no organized base whatsoever. so it would be pretty hard to take them down

Not 100% true. The Humanist Association of Canada is non-theistic (though they avoid the term atheistic but I don't know what the difference between non-theistic and a-theistic is). The idea behind this association is to organize atheists to have some type of power base on level with the organized religions. It also works to raise money for charities similar to what churches do.

There still is no book of rules, but the president of the aforementioned association has written a book called "Can We Be Good Without God?" in which he argues:
"... that it may in fact be better to behave as if there were no God when debating our moral principles and our responses to moral problems. Rather than insist that morality is a question of good vs. evil and divine punishment, we should focus on human values which encourage constructiveness and discourage destructiveness. Morals don't need to be divinely inspired to be worth following."

So the only rule is to make your own rules based on what you believe to be right and wrong.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

If you are in the "don't know, don't care" category then you are not athiest; you are agnostic. What exactly is the athiestic belief structure?

Not really. The technical definitions are as follows:

Agnosticism — is unknown or inherently unknowable. Some agnostics take a stronger view that the concept of a deity is incoherent, thus meaningless and irrelevant to life. is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims — particularly theological claims regarding the existence of God, gods, or deities The term is used to describe those who are unconvinced or noncommittal about the existence of deities as well as other matters of religion.

Atheism, in its broadest sense, is the absence of belief in the existence of deities. A narrower definition includes only those who believe that deities do not exist, and excludes those who hold no position on the question (see agnostics and other non-theists). In other words, an "atheist" can be defined as either:

• A person who does not believe the proposition "At least one god exists"; or
• A person who believes the proposition "No god or gods exist".

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

If you are in the "don't know, don't care" category then you are not athiest; you are agnostic. What exactly is the athiestic belief structure?

I don't know where exactly I fall. It's somewhere along the lines of "I don't think there is a God. But on the off chance that there _is_ an all-powerful-supreme-being then it doesn't much matter since he/she/it isn't worth worshipping".

Athiesm is considered a "religion" because some believe that it is faith-based. To believe that there is *NOT* a God takes as much faith as to believe that there *IS* a God. There may be no solid proof that God exists; there is also no solid proof that God does not exist. It's sorta like aliens. There is no solid proof that there is life on other planets, but to say that they don't exist is taking a solid leap of faith.

Thats the line all theists would love everyone to believe....its BS.

Atheism, by definition, is the absence of theism. If you cannot say "I believe in a Deity/God/Supreme Being" then you are an atheist. If you are not a theist, then you are an atheist.

My faith is in the human race...I believe that people are inherantly good and moral and dont need a "religion" to make them so. I find meaning in human compassion, social progress, the beauty of humanity (art, music, literature), personal happiness, pleasure, joy, love, and the advancement of knowledge.

All religions think that you MUST be part of a theistic choice to be compassionate, etc.

Freethinkers are convinced that religious claims have not withstood the tests of reason. Not only is there nothing to be gained by believing an untruth, but there is everything to lose when we sacrifice the indispensable tool of reason on the altar of superstition. Most freethinkers consider religion to be not only untrue, but harmful. It has been used to justify war, slavery, sexism, racism, homophobia, mutilations, intolerance, and oppression of minorities. The totalitarianism of religious absolutes chokes progress.


"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
- Albert Einstein

"Religion is comparable to a childhood neurosis."
-Sigmund Freud

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
- Thomas Jefferson

"God was invented to explain mystery."
- Richard Feynman

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Not really. The technical definitions are as follows:

Agnosticism — is unknown or inherently unknowable. Some agnostics take a stronger view that the concept of a deity is incoherent, thus meaningless and irrelevant to life.

Toe-MAY-toe, toe-MAH-toe. By either your definition or mine, I think Agamemnon will place himself firmly in the agnostic camp.

-=-=-=-=-=-

Cheese:
"My faith is in the human race...I believe that people are inherantly good and moral and dont need a "religion" to make them so."

Funny. I would tend towards the opposite. I believe that people are inherantly amoral, driven by primal instincts of greed and selfishness and they need a religion to force them make moral choices. Carl Sagan went from "The politicians and the religious leaders and the weapons scientists have been at it for a long time and they've made a thorough mess of it. I mean, we're in deep trouble." to working with organized religion on environmental and international relief projects towards the end of his life. I can't remember the exact quote, but it went something like "I used to believe that religion was a primary cause of all the strife on Earth. I now believe that religion may be the only cure." He, himself, remained an athiest, but he believed that the only means of getting enough people to believe in things like "global warming" instead of their own greed and selfishness was to partner with organized religion.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Toe-MAY-toe, toe-MAH-toe. By either your definition or mine, I think Agamemnon will place himself firmly in the agnostic camp.

-=-=-=-=-=-

Cheese:
"My faith is in the human race...I believe that people are inherantly good and moral and dont need a "religion" to make them so."

Funny. I would tend towards the opposite. I believe that people are inherantly amoral, driven by primal instincts of greed and selfishness and they need a religion to force them make moral choices. Carl Sagan went from "The politicians and the religious leaders and the weapons scientists have been at it for a long time and they've made a thorough mess of it. I mean, we're in deep trouble." to working with organized religion on environmental and international relief projects towards the end of his life. I can't remember the exact quote, but it went something like "I used to believe that religion was a primary cause of all the strife on Earth. I now believe that religion may be the only cure." He, himself, remained an athiest, but he believed that the only means of getting enough people to believe in things like "global warming" instead of their own greed and selfishness was to partner with organized religion.

LOL...well why dont you take a look at the vast number ofpeople who go to church on Sunday then go home and promptly forget about it....do you know any religious smokers/drinkers/fornicators/wife beaters/child abusers?
How about the Muslim nation these days? A minority amongst the many? The Jewish people did a nice job against Lebanon recently.
Is this amoral people? Or is it amoral people using religion as their basis for murder?

I stand by my thought that man is inherantly good...he will help his neighbor without question...its when you add ingredients that teach man that his choice of theism is the right choice that creates issues.
For every one former atheist you can haul out of the closet suggesting religion is good I can haul out 500 saying the opposite.

[Resolute 14]

Because atheists are 100% clean, virtuous, honest, loyal and honorable.

And of course you could haul 500 evil people who happen to believe in a religion for every 1 evil athiest. The ratio of actual athiests to everyone else is probably the same, or greater.

I've said it before, and I will say it again Cheese, you are every bit the zealot that those you despise are.

[CaramonLS]

Snake are you playing Devils advocate? (not the poster), or being serious?

[Resolute 14]

No, I am serious.

FWIW, I agree with Devil's Advocate. Like every other species on earth, man is a creature of instincts. We use faith to help govern ourselves, be it faith in god, faith in the lack thereof, faith in man, etc. They are all intended to serve the same function.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Not 100% true. The Humanist Association of Canada is non-theistic (though they avoid the term atheistic but I don't know what the difference between non-theistic and a-theistic is). The idea behind this association is to organize atheists to have some type of power base on level with the organized religions. It also works to raise money for charities similar to what churches do.

There still is no book of rules, but the president of the aforementioned association has written a book called "Can We Be Good Without God?" in which he argues:
"... that it may in fact be better to behave as if there were no God when debating our moral principles and our responses to moral problems. Rather than insist that morality is a question of good vs. evil and divine punishment, we should focus on human values which encourage constructiveness and discourage destructiveness. Morals don't need to be divinely inspired to be worth following."

So the only rule is to make your own rules based on what you believe to be right and wrong.

A Buddhist I knew in university referred to himself as a "Non-Theist", and found the term "atheist" insulting if used to describe Buddhism.

So I think that is the difference. A "non-theist" does not necessarily believe in nothing. A non-theist just does not believe in God. It is engrained in some people (most westerners) that God and religion are one and the same, but they are not necessarily.

An atheist is a non-theist, but a non-theist is not necessarily an atheist.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

A Buddhist I knew in university referred to himself as a "Non-Theist", and found the term "atheist" insulting if used to describe Buddhism.

So I think that is the difference. A "non-theist" does not necessarily believe in nothing. A non-theist just does not believe in God. It is engrained in some people (most westerners) that God and religion are one and the same, but they are not necessarily.

An atheist is a non-theist, but a non-theist is not necessarily an atheist.

well if he was a budhist hes a theist. LOL. How can you be a non theist and believe in any God? Id call him a fence sitter...unsure what side to sit on.