Monument to Vietnam deserters draws fire

[Cowperson]

Plans for a bronze monument and festival to honor U.S. draft dodgers in 2006 in this picturesque lakeside town have generated a wave of anger in the United States, local officials say.

In announcing Our Way Home, a celebration set for July 8-9, 2006, director Isaac Romano said the purpose was to honor "the courageous legacy of Vietnam War resisters and the Canadians who helped them resettle in this country during that tumultuous era."



Do you object to the objectors monument?

Cowperson

[duncan]

In one word....................... YES!
This is a slap in the face for Americans and Canadians who served in this war. Perhaps they should instead search for each one and present them with a nice yellow ribbon.

[Ozymandias]

I didn't know they made awards for cowards.

Then again, there are awards for stupidest deaths. Anything is possible, I guess.

Oh yeah, I'm opposed to it =)

[Reaper]

While I believe that there were draft dodgers who fled to Canada because they felt that it was their only option I don't think they deserve a monument.

Some things just don't need to be paid tribute.

I'm not going to try to characterize every draft dodger as a coward or a hero but the monument seems really weak.

Why not have a monument for every single choice that people make that is contrary to what the norm is?

It just seems like Nelson, BC wants a monument and this is they way that they are getting it.

[CaptainCrunch]

You know there were lots of young American's who went to Vietnam, they were scared, they didn't believe in the war, but they went because they were asked too. there's already a monument to those soldiers.

I personally don't agree with Draft Dodgers, it didn't take any kind of bravery to flee to Canada. It would have taken bravery to go and serve, or to refuse and face the music.

These people were gutless to me, and in the end it wasn't about a political statement, it was about not being willing to take the chance of serving.

the fact that this is being done in Canada disgusts me even more, it figures that our country would salute a bunch of cowards. Hey maybe next week we can build a monument to purse snatchers.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

How are these people heros or courageous? They saw trouble and they ran. What an insult to the true heros who served in the army, navy and air force to consider these cowards heros.

[kipperfan]

Originally posted by Mean Mr. Mustard@Sep 25 2004, 09:19 PM
How are these people heros or courageous? They saw trouble and they ran. What an insult to the true heros who served in the army, navy and air force to consider these cowards heros.

If you believe trouble was really coming maybe. I wont condone the actions of all of these people, iam sure many had unjust motives, but to not want to fight in THAT wari understand.

If Canada started a war tommorow with Bulgaria, and conscription came into effect, Id run, wherever I had to, because standing up for what you believe in sometimes has to be done by simple running. That Vietnam was riduclous from the beginning, and thats why people fled, why would you go fight someone elses war?? I wouldnt, Id kill myself first. Its about self respect and dignity, and it doesnt matter if people call you a traitor, cause you know that that war was garbage, nothing more than a political jab fest between cold war nations, something that has nothing to do with you, your family, or their safety, why would they fight????? I ashamed at those who did, THEY are the real cowards, knowing what they where doing was wrong, but doing it anyway, because their country told them to. Thats sick.

Congrats to you who escaped to a better life, and huge thanks to those Canadians who helped these open-eyed Americans find hospitality in a rocky time.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by kipperfan+Sep 25 2004, 09:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (kipperfan @ Sep 25 2004, 09:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mean Mr. Mustard@Sep 25 2004, 09:19 PM
How are these people heros or courageous? They saw trouble and they ran. What an insult to the true heros who served in the army, navy and air force to consider these cowards heros.

If you believe trouble was really coming maybe. I wont condone the actions of all of these people, iam sure many had unjust motives, but to not want to fight in THAT wari understand.

If Canada started a war tommorow with Bulgaria, and conscription came into effect, Id run, wherever I had to, because standing up for what you believe in sometimes has to be done by simple running. That Vietnam was riduclous from the beginning, and thats why people fled, why would you go fight someone elses war?? I wouldnt, Id kill myself first. Its about self respect and dignity, and it doesnt matter if people call you a traitor, cause you know that that war was garbage, nothing more than a political jab fest between cold war nations, something that has nothing to do with you, your family, or their safety, why would they fight????? I ashamed at those who did, THEY are the real cowards, knowing what they where doing was wrong, but doing it anyway, because their country told them to. Thats sick.

Congrats to you who escaped to a better life, and huge thanks to those Canadians who helped these open-eyed Americans find hospitality in a rocky time. [/b][/quote]
There is not respect from me from those that ran. If they truly believed in making a political stand, then stand up and be counted, face the consequences, don't run to Canada.

Like I mentioned before, there were people that didn't believe but went anyways, those are the ones that I salute. There were people that didn't believe but willingly faced judges to get there point accross, those people were brave and willing to accept the consequences

Even John Kerry, a man that I personally don't like all of that much went even though he didn't believe in the war effort.

These deserters in my mind are cowards. They stood for nothing except saving thier own a$$es. Oh and slipping across our borders so they could smoke dope, and drink our beer.

[Ozy_Flame]

kipperfan, who truly is a hero? The people who probably didn't want to go to war but stood in the face of death anyway (of which many made the ultimate sacrifice) to serve their duty as a citizen? Or those who felt it wasn't important to give back to a country that was one of the best to live in at the time? I know which answer I'd go for, and it certainly isn't those who deserted their country.

Likewise, I don't agree with the war in Iraq, but I consider those men and women out there who are putting their lives on the line to be more heroic as human beings than anyone who shamefully runs from their obligation as a citizen.

[Mike F]

I think it's silly to erect a tribute but at the same time I have to roll my eyes at all of the "cowardly deserting cowards" talk being thrown around.

I'm no coward, nor am I a peacenick that believes that all war is wrong and all problems should be hugged better. WWI & II, Somalia, Afghanistan etc. were all worth fighting. However if I were an American there is no way I'd go over and risk my life or limbs for a cause I didn't believe in just because I wasn't rich enough to get out of it.

I'd happily stand with the group that "ran away" based on my principles rather than the group opposed to the war but went over and killed people anyway just because my government had a beef.

[CaptainCrunch]

I'm no coward, nor am I a peacenick that believes that all war is wrong and all problems should be hugged better. WWI & II, Somalia, Afghanistan etc. were all worth fighting. However if I were an American there is no way I'd go over and risk my life or limbs for a cause I didn't believe in just because I wasn't rich enough to get out of it.

I'm not attacking you personally, I don't know you so I can't attest to your level of bravery. but I have to ask. Who do you respect more, the guy who flees over the border at midnight, or the guy that went to the draft board and said that there's no way I believe in this, I'm not going, but I'm ready to face the consequences. Or the guy that said, I don't believe in this war, but I might be able to serve a greater good by serving and supporting the guy in the hole next to me?

I'd happily stand with the group that "ran away" based on my principles rather than the group opposed to the war but went over and killed people anyway just because my government had a beef.

My viewpoint is that these draftdodgers were willing to flee but unwilling to take responsibilities for thier convictions. thats what makes them cowards to me.

[Vulcan]

I believe the Viet Nam war was an extension of France's colonial war in SE Asia and the USA only wanted to prop up their client state in opposition to the VietCong's war of independence. I don't think establishing a memorial to draft dodgers is on my priority list but it's a free country. Their are lots of draft dodgers and old hippies in the Nelson area. Their are also a large population of Doukabors in the Kootenay area and these people have a long history of antiwar feelings. Everybody didn't have the political connections of Georgie Bush so they could defend Texas. I believe Kerry had no problem fighting in Viet Nam until he figured out what was going on. I believe it is each individuals responsibility to follow their conscious and the old adage of "my country,right or wrong" is false. The Nazi's [extreme example] tried to use "I was only following orders" but it didn't work. I believe in cases of self defense or peacekeeping I would support our Canadian Forces, and yes they do need a big equipment upgrade if only to maintain our independence with possible future challenges in the warming up NW passage.

[Ozy_Flame]

Actually I don't really care if they build a statue, but if they use words like "Hero" or "Courageous Legacy," then I'll be ticked. These people were neither the former nor had the latter.

Otherwise, go nuts, esepcially if it makes them feel justified.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Was an unjust war. Well maybe if you look back on it from today but come on do you know anything about the 1960s and the 1970s. It doesn't sound like you know a damn thing about the time. Have you seen the videos of Khrushchev and his banging of the shoe on a desk at the United Nations while stating and this is a quote, "We will destroy you". Now then you also must look at who the Viet Cong was supported by, come on take a guess. Yeah thats right the North Vietnamese Army was supported by none other than the Soviet Union. So you have a nation which is very powerful (had nuclear weapons), had in the past attempted to have these weapons very close to the United States, and well lets face it, I am 200% sure that they wouldn't have a problem with blowing the crap out of any capitalist city.

It is merely an unjust war for those with very selective memories, and for those who have gang jean jackets too. Thats right Mr. Timberlake I am talking to you.

[Cowperson]

If I'm not mistaken, Cassius Clay, aka Muhammed Ali, went to the draft board and said "I'm not going" and served some prison time.

He didn't jump the border.

I think someone offered earlier the most appropriate viewpoint. Erecting a monument to people who deserted is probably not needed since they literally did nothing that would give us pause to remember them in any kind of light. They certainly weren't heroes.

Let them fade into the darkness of history.

Cowperson

[Mike F]

My respect hierarchy is:

1. Those who risked their lives because they believed in the cause
2. Those who avoided the war because they didn't believe it was just
3. Those who believed it was unjust but picked up a rifle and killed anyway

I suppose I have a modicum more respect for those who faced trial, but it's not the dividing line between cowardly and not. At the time, those who were drafted didn't have to look far to see someone of wealth and privilege exempted from having to face the dilemma, so it's hard for me to fault those underprivileged who felt it was nearly as unjust to face prison as it was to face war.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Wait a second, their nation called upon them, they responded by doing what was asked of them and they don't get as much respect for the people that RAN AWAY because they were scared for their own lives? Do you think these people were making a political stand, or that they were just afraid of dying?

[Mike F]

Originally posted by Mean Mr. Mustard@Sep 25 2004, 04:05 PM
It is merely an unjust war for those with very selective memories

Funny, I seem to remember something of a small, grassroots opposition movement back during that very period.

Oh well, I'm sure that's just my selective memory again. You're probably right; it's a good thing the US went over and won the Vietnam war and stopped those Russians.

[Mike F]

Originally posted by Mean Mr. Mustard@Sep 25 2004, 04:10 PM
Wait a second, their nation called upon them, they responded by doing what was asked of them and they don't get as much respect for the people that RAN AWAY because they were scared for their own lives? Do you think these people were making a political stand, or that they were just afraid of dying?

Hmmm... Where ever did you find a brush that big to cover all of those people

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally posted by Mike F+Sep 25 2004, 11:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike F @ Sep 25 2004, 11:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mean Mr. Mustard@Sep 25 2004, 04:10 PM
Wait a second, their nation called upon them, they responded by doing what was asked of them and they don't get as much respect for the people that RAN AWAY because they were scared for their own lives? Do you think these people were making a political stand, or that they were just afraid of dying?

Hmmm... Where ever did you find a brush that big to cover all of those people [/b][/quote]
I would put money on the majority of the people being afraid to die rather than making some grand political statement. If the political statement was their intention why didn't they just go to prison and proclaim it injust from there. Why would you run away. I know there likely were people that had political motives but I would bet the huge majority of them were just scared for their own lives.

I ask you though, there are a group which has stated they will distroy you, they are building up armies in other areas of the world and they have made some attempts to get nuclear weapons within firing distance of the nation in which you live. These are not nice people you are dealing with. At the time the Vietnam war made perfect sense.