REALLY disturbing story

[calf]

Link

Charged with the sexual assault of a 76 year old woman (that's not a typo).

Unbelieveable, and incredibly disturbing story.

[FlamesAllTheWay]

Originally posted by article

She complained that police abused the boys to obtain confessions.

Awww, that's too bad.

Some laws concerning juvenille crimes need to be redone. Garbage like this needs to result in anyone involved being tried as an adult...

[Wookie]

Or shot as an Adult

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

That is the most disgusting thing I have ever read. Just sick.

[icarus]

Kids will be kids... :unsure: Maybe not. What the hell is wrong with that guy?

[JiriHrdina]

Gotta be careful here...but I don't know if I agree that this kid should be tried as an adult. Yes. This is one of the most horrible things I've ever heard. But he's 11 years old. If he's doing stuff like this at that age there is something really wrong with him (obviously). My point is that if you try him as an adult and send him away what does that give you. Lets say 15 years in jail (I have no idea if that's accurate). Then he comes out a real monster and the ripe age of 26 so he can start doing even more damage.

At 11 I think some real effort should be made to figure out what the frick is wrong with the kid and try to get him some help.

My 2 cents.

[FlamesAllTheWay]

Originally posted by JiriHrdina@Sep 22 2004, 09:20 PM
Gotta be careful here...but I don't know if I agree that this kid should be tried as an adult. Yes. This is one of the most horrible things I've ever heard. But he's 11 years old. If he's doing stuff like this at that age there is something really wrong with him (obviously). My point is that if you try him as an adult and send him away what does that give you. Lets say 15 years in jail (I have no idea if that's accurate). Then he comes out a real monster and the ripe age of 26 so he can start doing even more damage.

At 11 I think some real effort should be made to figure out what the frick is wrong with the kid and try to get him some help.

My 2 cents.

Sure, therapy while they're in prison then. I'm just saying their shouldn't be a double standard for stuff like this, it's really bad no matter how old you are...

[JiriHrdina]

Right. No question. But I guess what I'm saying is that 11 years old there is no way he's going away for the rest of his life. He's coming out as an adult. Jail will just make him an even worse and dangerous human being for when he comes out. In my view he probably needs to be put away in some sort of secure psychiatric hospital for a very long time.

[FlamesAllTheWay]

Yeah, hadn't really thought of that. Life sentence (especially here in Canada) would not even be a factor, and prison is just a real long 'time out' to think about what you did, with no real treatment going on. Psychiatric lock up as you said would probably be a better way to go...

[Thunderball]

Why can't we just lock these people in an institution for life? or at least until we are 110% sure they are cured... no more half measure... time for society to curb this stuff in a harsh fashion.

[calgaryred]

Her son breaks in robs on more than one occasion. Then comes in and tries to rape a senior? In the end the mother whines how her boy is being treated by the police? That's a woman in denial! I say throw the little sh!t in with the big boys for a day. See what it's like to be a b!tch. Sick little f___k.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by FlamesAllTheWay@Sep 23 2004, 03:39 AM
Yeah, hadn't really thought of that. Life sentence (especially here in Canada) would not even be a factor, and prison is just a real long 'time out' to think about what you did, with no real treatment going on. Psychiatric lock up as you said would probably be a better way to go...

Tag the little bas**rd with a dangerous offender title and put him away forever. I can't believe this kid, and its not a matter of being a crime of passion he harrassed her and had a chance to think things through before he did it. Looks like another Clifford Olsen on our hands.

Then the mother complaining about him being abused for a confession. Its the same as the punks in Columbine where thier parents ignored all of the classic symptoms of anti social behavior because they were too busy with thier own lives .

I know you can't charge an 11 year old for adult court. Chances are the little bas**rd will get time served and be given over to his mother.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by Thunderball@Sep 22 2004, 09:43 PM
Why can't we just lock these people in an institution for life? or at least until we are 110% sure they are cured... no more half measure... time for society to curb this stuff in a harsh fashion.

The Americans already deal with crime in a pretty harsh fashion. They have twice as many people in jail as China does.

Maybe a different approach is needed?

And no, I don't mean starting with this kid.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch+Sep 22 2004, 09:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CaptainCrunch @ Sep 22 2004, 09:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-FlamesAllTheWay@Sep 23 2004, 03:39 AM
Yeah, hadn't really thought of that. Life sentence (especially here in Canada) would not even be a factor, and prison is just a real long 'time out' to think about what you did, with no real treatment going on. Psychiatric lock up as you said would probably be a better way to go...

Tag the little bas**rd with a dangerous offender title and put him away forever. I can't believe this kid, and its not a matter of being a crime of passion he harrassed her and had a chance to think things through before he did it. Looks like another Clifford Olsen on our hands.

Then the mother complaining about him being abused for a confession. Its the same as the punks in Columbine where thier parents ignored all of the classic symptoms of anti social behavior because they were too busy with thier own lives .

I know you can't charge an 11 year old for adult court. Chances are the little bas**rd will get time served and be given over to his mother. [/b][/quote]
Yup. Given back to his mom. And I would suggest there is a good chance that the problem started there. Its a big assumption yes, but judging from how messed up this kid is and her reaction so far, I would suggest her parenting skills are less than stellar.

Again - I'm not trying to place blame elsewhere. But part of me thinks if this kid goes away for 10 years, the mom should have to serve at least 5 just for screwing up her kid.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Obviously (I think), the kid has been severely neglected and/or abused.

'Roos.....do you think the amount of executions in China might have something to do with their nice, low incarceration numbers? Not really a fair statement you made there....and frankly, the laws and accompanying punishments in the US regarding sexual crimes are p*ss poor.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by Displaced Flames fan@Sep 22 2004, 10:05 PM
Obviously (I think), the kid has been severely neglected and/or abused.

'Roos.....do you think the amount of executions in China might have something to do with their nice, low incarceration numbers? Not really a fair statement you made there....and frankly, the laws and accompanying punishments in the US regarding sexual crimes are p*ss poor.

Good point DFF. I hadn't thought of the whole "dead people don't count as prisoners" thing in China.

More than anything I'm commenting on the somewhat prevalent opinion that Canada is "soft on crime" and if we just handed out harsher sentences everything would be sunshine and lollipops. Looking at the US, that strategy doesn't seem to work.

But! Just to prove how right I am about crime in the US I did a little research in my nifty little "Economist Pocket World in Figures" book and this is what I found:

Serious Assault
no. per 100,00 pop., 1999
#1. Australia 708.5
#15. Canada 140.2
#??. USA ??? The list only goes to 20 and the USA doesn't rank.

So to reiterate, I am wrong. But it is surprising, no?

Theft
no. per 100,000 pop., 1999
1. Denmark (!) 7,687.6
2. Australia 6,215.0
5. Canada 3,968.9
#? USA The list only goes to 20 and the US doesn't rank.

Hmmm.

So, in conclusion, I am still wrong. But the US does have 2.1 million people behind bars (732 per 100 thousand).

But! The nifty little book does add this disclaimer: Crime statistics are based on numbers recorded by police. The number will therefore depend partly on the efficiency of police administration systems, the definition of offences, and the proportion of crimes reported, and therefore may not be strictly comparable.

But! There were 16 000 murders in the US in 2002 versus 582 in Canada. Phew.

What have I proven? Nothing! I can't even remember what the topic is.

[Displaced Flames fan]

You're telling me that the US doesn't rank in the top 20 in serious assaults and thefts in the world??? That can't be right.

The murder rate is horrid. I would like to know what percentage of ours are gang related murders. Would also like to know where domestic disturbance murders fall in for each nation. Just a curiosity really, not trying to prove anything.

[duncan]

Dis, you hit the nail on the head, there are fewer people in jail in countries like China, because criminals are treated harsher than in the US and Canada, not because they have found a better way to rehabillitate. Crime is alot rarer in countries where Draconian Law, or the Laws of Hammurabi are still enforced. You are less inclined to steal in it costs you a hand, less likely to kill if you also will be killed. Rehabillitation only works if the offender wants help, much like AA/NA.
The Young Offenders Act was supposed to cure Youth Crime, by providing a safe setting and modified sentencing, to recognize the immaturity and impulsiveness of a child. It was based on second and sometimes third chance (brought on by hiding the identity) and rehabillitation. The YOs quickly learned that the Act didn't protect society, it protected the Offender. Kids under 12 could not be prosecuted, under 16 were seldom given any form of secure sentences, and the most heinous of crimes would bring a maximum of 3-5 years. These kids didn't get less impulsive, they saw it as a time to act out, knowing they would get light sentences and would be free and clear if they didn't reoffend within 2 years of getting out. They would have NO criminal record.
The YOA failed greatly, so the Federal Liberals brought in the YCJA, or Youth Criminal Justice Act. The YCJA was supposed to make it easier to try Youths as Adults if they committed serious offences, and make rehab more efficient for first time offenders. 17 months after enactment, and Youths are still being tried in Youth courts for murder, and the 'Alternative' measures are failing fast, as recidivism actually rises. Kids have already learned that a first offence will net their parents being informed, their 2nd offence maybe a community measures group or Elders speaking with them, 3rd may get Community service....... by the time any custody is served, they have been dealt with 4-5 times. The YCJA has actually taken what little teeth the YOA had, and pulled them. In Canada, this little darling wouldn't even get charged, he's too young.
The mother's reaction is common, 'I did nothing wrong', 'I raised a good boy'. 'The police/society are at fault'. I see it all of the time. Johnny would never have done that, the police forced him to say it, or the victim is blowing it out of proportion. Some even say that the victim is to blame, because she should have went to them when she first had a problem.

[Crazy Flamer]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch@Sep 23 2004, 03:45 AM

Tag the little bas**rd with a dangerous offender title and put him away forever. I can't believe this kid, and its not a matter of being a crime of passion he harrassed her and had a chance to think things through before he did it. Looks like another Clifford Olsen on our hands.

Then the mother complaining about him being abused for a confession. Its the same as the punks in Columbine where thier parents ignored all of the classic symptoms of anti social behavior because they were too busy with thier own lives .

I know you can't charge an 11 year old for adult court. Chances are the little bas**rd will get time served and be given over to his mother.

Put him away for life.. A little harsh, no? Yes, what this kid did was sick and demented and if he was 17 or 18 I would agree with you. However, at age 11, there is a good chance to rehabilitating this kid. You have to get past the action itself and see if there's a chance to change future behavior. In thise case, there is. It becomes increasingly difficult with age, but at age 11, it can still be done.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by Crazy Flamer+Sep 23 2004, 05:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Crazy Flamer @ Sep 23 2004, 05:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-CaptainCrunch@Sep 23 2004, 03:45 AM

Tag the little bas**rd with a dangerous offender title and put him away forever. I can't believe this kid, and its not a matter of being a crime of passion he harrassed her and had a chance to think things through before he did it. Looks like another Clifford Olsen on our hands.

Then the mother complaining about him being abused for a confession. Its the same as the punks in Columbine where thier parents ignored all of the classic symptoms of anti social behavior because they were too busy with thier own lives .

I know you can't charge an 11 year old for adult court. Chances are the little bas**rd will get time served and be given over to his mother.

Put him away for life.. A little harsh, no? Yes, what this kid did was sick and demented and if he was 17 or 18 I would agree with you. However, at age 11, there is a good chance to rehabilitating this kid. You have to get past the action itself and see if there's a chance to change future behavior. In thise case, there is. It becomes increasingly difficult with age, but at age 11, it can still be done. [/b][/quote]
Sorry I don't see it that way.

If he was shoplifting or bullying then I could buy the whole rehab angle

He basically harassed this woman, the he invited friends along and raped her.

she was 76.

Broke into her house, bought his brother with him, terrorized and raped her.

That to me is extreme antisocial behavior.

I really don't think stuffed animal theatre, your not so bad, its your mommy's fault is going to help him.

What we lack sometimes is a sense of reality that relates to our justice system. We're so concerned with finding reasons why people are shooting or raping, that we forget that sometimes people do things because either they lack impulse control, or they think they can get away with things.

In fact to be honest, I'm not too interested in his rehabilitation. IMHO this kid shouldn't see the light of day til he's 90.

I'd be looking for buried animals in his back yard.

Statements that lead me to feel this way

Police said that for a week before the attack, the boys had been "terrorizing" the woman in her house, repeatedly breaking in and taking cash and other items.

In court Wednesday, the 11-year-old facing the less serious charges called out, "Hi, Mom" after spotting his adoptive mother.

The woman said the 11-year-old put on a condom and tried to rape her, followed by a second boy.