Turkey to make adultery illegal

[Cowperson]

Speaking of culture clashes, Turkey, which is hoping for admittance to the European Union, has announced it will seek to make adultery illegal.

Europeans are aghast.

Guenter Verheugen, the European commissioner for enlargement, commented on the adultery clause during a trip to Turkey last week.

"I cannot understand how a measure like this could be considered at such a time," Mr Verheugen said. "It can only be a joke."

Should this be any business of Europe or any Western culture? Is making adultery a crime reasonable from your perspective?

If I'm not mistaken, slighly more than 50% of Canadian males and about 40% of Canadian females will have extra-marital affairs in their lifetimes.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3654650.stm

Cowperson

[Lurch]

Not that I subscribe to either 'crime', but pot is illegal in the US. Which is more harmful to society in general - pot or affairs? Seems pretty much a toss-up IMO, i.e. depending on the situation and person, it may or may not cause a problem. As such, is this really any different than laws that exist in the 'land of the free'?

[jonesy]

Adultery can be very destructive, especially to kids of adulterers if the marriage goes kaput. I don't think the EU has any cause to comment on other countries laws.

[CaramonLS]

Depending on what the punishment is... I would be for this.

Most people who cheat are cold, heartless and are going to do it more than once.

You make a commitment to marriage... honor it, if not get a divorce.

Of course, Cows number might be a little skewed as those are people who have extra marital affairs, a certain number are consentual (so that number includes much more than cheaters).

[FlamesAddiction]

What if the adultery is consentual? Quite a few older married couples (at least in our culture) choose to stay married out of convenience but choose to also seek other relationships. In other cases, there is absolutely no love in their married relationship, so people seek extra-marital affairs.

It really isn't the government's concern (at least in our culture) who someone sleeps with. I don't know enough about Turkey and their cultural values, but if they want to be considered a western democracy, they shouldn't be passing laws like this.

Marriage is a private contract. Let civil courts deal with it.

[CaramonLS]

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction@Sep 14 2004, 03:57 PM
What if the adultery is consentual? Quite a few older married couples (at least in our culture) choose to stay married out of convenience but choose to also seek other relationships. In other cases, there is absolutely no love in their married relationship, so people seek extra-marital affairs.

It really isn't the government's concern (at least in our culture) who someone sleeps with. I don't know enough about Turkey and their cultural values, but if they want to be considered a western democracy, they shouldn't be passing laws like this.

Marriage is a private contract. Let civil courts deal with it.

I highly doubt that the law would require manditory prosecution.

Much like Assault, domestic battery, most petty crimes someone actually has to decide to press charges against you.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally posted by CaramonLS@Sep 14 2004, 04:24 PM
I highly doubt that the law would require manditory prosecution.

Much like Assault, domestic battery, most petty crimes someone actually has to decide to press charges against you.

Is that the case in Turkey? I know that in Canada and many other countries, the onus in on the Crown or legal authorities choose to press charges in assault cases. In the case of domestic assaults, I believe it is pretty much mandatory now.

[troutman]

I would think this must contravene UN Declarations.

Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

Article 18.
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

Article 16.
(1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.

(2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.

(3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State

Article 12.
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by Lurch@Sep 14 2004, 09:00 AM
Not that I subscribe to either 'crime', but pot is illegal in the US. Which is more harmful to society in general - pot or affairs? Seems pretty much a toss-up IMO, i.e. depending on the situation and person, it may or may not cause a problem. As such, is this really any different than laws that exist in the 'land of the free'?

And much like pot -- no matter what they do, no matter what laws the government passes, no matter how many people they lock up, no matter how many cornball "educational programs" they fund, no matter who becomes the de facto "infidelity czar", people are going to do it anyway.

It's like trying to write a law that stamps out anger, or jealousy. It can't be done.

[Lurch]

I would think this must contravene UN Declarations.

Please! Polygamy is outlawed throughout the West - we regularly infringe on people's rights if they fall outside the Judeo-Christian tradition.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally posted by Lurch@Sep 14 2004, 04:37 PM

Please! Polygamy is outlawed throughout the West - we regularly infringe on people's rights if they fall outside the Judeo-Christian tradition.

Hey, come on now. Abraham, the founder of all 3 Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam), screwed around on his wife. Adultery IS in the Judeo-Christian tradition.

[Cowperson]

Aw shucks. There goes the debate.

Turkey withdraws plans to outlaw adultery.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3654650.stm

Cowperson

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by jonesy@Sep 14 2004, 03:45 PM
Adultery can be very destructive, especially to kids of adulterers if the marriage goes kaput. I don't think the EU has any cause to comment on other countries laws.

I think because Turkey wants to get IN the EU, the EU has some say as to Turkey's domestic laws. In fact, the whole point of the EU in many ways is that large sections of society and economy are now under EU control, as opposed to domestic state-control. The EU has demanded many different areas for all its member-states to conform.

Also, isn't gay-sex (sodomy) illegal in some US states? Isn't judging extra-marital affairs more or less the same as judging sexuality? (ie sexual preference on # of partners, sex of partners, etc.) I'm sure sleeping around is frowned upon too, is the govt. going to start limiting your # of sexual partners? Unless people are getting hurt, the govt. should keep their noses out of your personal life. If your kids get screwed up because you screwed around, then you're a dick and probably doomed to an unhappy life (cause your kids hate you) anyway.

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by Agamemnon+Sep 14 2004, 07:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Agamemnon @ Sep 14 2004, 07:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-jonesy@Sep 14 2004, 03:45 PM
Adultery can be very destructive, especially to kids of adulterers if the marriage goes kaput.# I don't think the EU has any cause to comment on other countries laws.

I think because Turkey wants to get IN the EU, the EU has some say as to Turkey's domestic laws. In fact, the whole point of the EU in many ways is that large sections of society and economy are now under EU control, as opposed to domestic state-control. The EU has demanded many different areas for all its member-states to conform.

Also, isn't gay-sex (sodomy) illegal in some US states? Isn't judging extra-marital affairs more or less the same as judging sexuality? (ie sexual preference on # of partners, sex of partners, etc.) I'm sure sleeping around is frowned upon too, is the govt. going to start limiting your # of sexual partners? Unless people are getting hurt, the govt. should keep their noses out of your personal life. If your kids get screwed up because you screwed around, then you're a dick and probably doomed to an unhappy life (cause your kids hate you) anyway. [/b][/quote]
To be more precise, it seems to be an Islamic culture that wants to join a Western Culture - at least economically - and therefore has to make adjustments in its own thinking to do so.

Is the price of compromise of principles too great for the Islamic side? Or a natural maturation process? Or has the EU demanded too much?

Cowperson

[Agamemnon]

Good point Cow. Regardless, I don't think they're getting into the EU anytime this decade, or even the next. The US is really pushing for them to get in, while EU states aren't convinced Turkey belongs in.

Turkey DOES have a headstart, in that its got a fairly solid secular government. If they work hard, who knows, maybe they'll get in.

[Cube Inmate]

Adultery is apparently illegal (by statute) in parts of the US:

"According to a report in the Washington Post, a man in Luray, Virginia recently pled guilty to adultery, a crime for which the maximum penalty is a $250 fine. Ironically, it wasn't his wife who complained; it was apparently his lover. (He reportedly has reconciled with his wife.)

"This case is a potent reminder--particularly for the man charged--that adultery is in fact a crime in more than twenty states. Though the laws are seldom enforced, their existence still affects the way people behave. "

You sinners! Sinners and criminals!

"Although Virginia's punishment for adultery is quite minor, its decision to enforce its criminal adultery law is quite remarkable. Other states are actively working to remove their criminal adultery laws from the books. The District of Columbia, for example, has enacted a law to eliminate 'outdated crimes,' including adultery. "

[Reaper]

Originally posted by Cube Inmate@Sep 14 2004, 02:48 PM
Adultery is apparently illegal (by statute) in parts of the US:

"According to a report in the Washington Post, a man in Luray, Virginia recently pled guilty to adultery, a crime for which the maximum penalty is a $250 fine. Ironically, it wasn't his wife who complained; it was apparently his lover. (He reportedly has reconciled with his wife.)

"This case is a potent reminder--particularly for the man charged--that adultery is in fact a crime in more than twenty states. Though the laws are seldom enforced, their existence still affects the way people behave. "

You sinners! Sinners and criminals!

"Although Virginia's punishment for adultery is quite minor, its decision to enforce its criminal adultery law is quite remarkable. Other states are actively working to remove their criminal adultery laws from the books. The District of Columbia, for example, has enacted a law to eliminate 'outdated crimes,' including adultery. "

Oral sex is also still illegal in some states. Like society will crumble if my wife gives me a bj...

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by Cube Inmate@Sep 14 2004, 08:48 PM
Adultery is apparently illegal (by statute) in parts of the US:

"According to a report in the Washington Post, a man in Luray, Virginia recently pled guilty to adultery, a crime for which the maximum penalty is a $250 fine. Ironically, it wasn't his wife who complained; it was apparently his lover. (He reportedly has reconciled with his wife.)

"This case is a potent reminder--particularly for the man charged--that adultery is in fact a crime in more than twenty states. Though the laws are seldom enforced, their existence still affects the way people behave. "

You sinners! Sinners and criminals!

"Although Virginia's punishment for adultery is quite minor, its decision to enforce its criminal adultery law is quite remarkable. Other states are actively working to remove their criminal adultery laws from the books. The District of Columbia, for example, has enacted a law to eliminate 'outdated crimes,' including adultery. "

I guess this means the USA can't join the European Union now.

The good news is, the USA can now join the Arab League.

Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all week. Try the veal.

Cowperson

[Weiser Wonder]

Talk about a waste of resources. If you have an affair it is nobodies business but you, your spouse, the person you're having an affair with, and that person's spouse.

[Looger]

Originally posted by Cowperson@Sep 14 2004, 07:32 PM
To be more precise, it seems to be an Islamic culture that wants to join a Western Culture - at least economically - and therefore has to make adjustments in its own thinking to do so.

Is the price of compromise of principles too great for the Islamic side? Or a natural maturation process? Or has the EU demanded too much?

Cowperson

i think a quick study of the history of turkey proves it's largely a secular nation, politically anyway.

their outgoing prime minister a year or so ago, ecivit, was widely panned throughout europe's press for measures that can be considered anti-religious, almost soviet-style.

since ataturk they have bordered on the militant-secular side of things, socially et al.

despite 98 or 99 % islamic population they outlawed polygamy in the 30s, gave women the vote, and tried desperately to westernize.

the last few years the country had been leaning towards severe religious crackdown, like laying off 2000 government employees at once because they prayed to much during work hours, etc.

then the islamic heritage party, of a similar spectrum slant to western europe's christian democrats, took office and priority one has been EU induction.

they will always have an islamic tradition in law etc. but turkey is not what i would call an islamic society, at least in contrast to any other country with that high a percentage of muslims anyway.