Chinese stealing our technology

[HOZ]

Looks like this government will not stick it's collective head in the sand and will actually do something about Chinese espionage.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...hub=TopStories
The federal government is "concerned" that Chinese spies are stealing Canada's industrial and high-technology secrets, Foreign Affairs Minister Peter MacKay told CTV.


This story is related to the other Chinese story as it tals about our newest Canadian Lu Decheng.
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=24229

[Bobblehead]

It's nice that they are raising the issue, but what are they going to 'do'?

[octothorp]

Canadian high tech secrets? That can mean only one thing: the Chinese are after the secret to how Tim Hortons gets the caramel inside their caramel donuts.

[oldschoolcalgary]

a bit of a slippery slope...their estimate of "a thousand spies" is as accurate as Dick Pound's assertion that a third of NHL players are on steroids. Totally groundless.

In the government's case, if they have evidence with regard to this industrial espionage, then they should make the case. Accusing a particular country without facts is akin to trying to inflame nationist feelings to galvanize the general population behind your banner.

[Calgary Flames]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Canadian high tech secrets? That can mean only one thing: the Chinese are after the secret to how Tim Hortons gets the caramel inside their caramel donuts.

Maybe they found the secret to actually having them on the goddam shelves. They reel me in with their tasty commercials, I go twice and no caramel donuts both times.

[Canada 02]

"The Blackberry RIM company is a perfect example of the type of technology and the economic impact that protecting that kind of trademark," said MacKay.

Interesting that MacKay uses RIM as an example since they spent the last four years in court over a patent infringement case, lost several court rulings and ultimately paid $600+ million to settle with NTP. Westjet is currently in a court battle with Air Canada in an industrial espionage accusation. "Stealing" intelectual property, patent infringements and other forms of industrial espionage happens all the time even within the confines of our borders by our citizens. If the Conservatives are serious about curtailing industral espionage, they should pursue everyone involved in this type of activity, not just the Chinese.

Intelligence files reportedly suggest that an estimated 1,000 Chinese agents and informants operate in Canada. Many of them are visiting students, scientists and business people, told to steal cutting-edge technology.

I've had the opportunity to work with many visiting students and scientists. The ones from China are indistinguishable from those that come from Japan, Korea, or Europe. They come here to learn, work, improve there standad of living, and ultimately and perhaps most importantly, get their permanent resident status and citizenship. If they wanted to steal intelectual property, they would have access to that information, but no different that the Korean or European student/scientist, or the Canadian student/scientists for that matter.

[SoulOfTheFlame]

Originally Posted by Calgary Flames

Maybe they found the secret to actually having them on the goddam shelves. They reel me in with their tasty commercials, I go twice and no caramel donuts both times.

Want some cheese with that whine?

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

I've had the opportunity to work with many visiting students and scientists. The ones from China are indistinguishable from those that come from Japan, Korea, or Europe. They come here to learn, work, improve there standad of living, and ultimately and perhaps most importantly, get their permanent resident status and citizenship. If they wanted to steal intelectual property, they would have access to that information, but no different that the Korean or European student/scientist, or the Canadian student/scientists for that matter.

Ya, if the Chinese sent over spies I'm sure they would totally stand out as spies. Most Chinese spies are recruited on the basis of their extremely pointed faces and tendency to dress completely in Black or White.

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

Interesting that MacKay uses RIM as an example since they spent the last four years in court over a patent infringement case, lost several court rulings and ultimately paid $600+ million to settle with NTP. Westjet is currently in a court battle with Air Canada in an industrial espionage accusation. "Stealing" intelectual property, patent infringements and other forms of industrial espionage happens all the time even within the confines of our borders by our citizens. If the Conservatives are serious about curtailing industral espionage, they should pursue everyone involved in this type of activity, not just the Chinese.


I've had the opportunity to work with many visiting students and scientists. The ones from China are indistinguishable from those that come from Japan, Korea, or Europe. They come here to learn, work, improve there standad of living, and ultimately and perhaps most importantly, get their permanent resident status and citizenship. If they wanted to steal intelectual property, they would have access to that information, but no different that the Korean or European student/scientist, or the Canadian student/scientists for that matter.

The LAW is concerned with personal infringement of intellectual rights, geopolitics come on the stage when a GOVERNMENT steals these to give to their STATE run companies. This theft affects us all, most specifically, in the pocket book. Thank the creator for blessing Canada with an abundance of natural resources so it doesn't affect us that much, but woe if we weren't because we do not, as a society, have the fortitude to stnad up to it anymore. We are the lackey's on the world stage. Thank goodness Harper is in there now or I don't know what would become of us and our panty-waste attitude.

[CarlW]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

Interesting that MacKay uses RIM as an example since they spent the last four years in court over a patent infringement case, lost several court rulings and ultimately paid $600+ million to settle with NTP.

Seeing as how NTP patents are a joke I don't think using the RIM case as an example of industrial espionage is viable.

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by White Doors

The LAW is concerned with personal infringement of intellectual rights, geopolitics come on the stage when a GOVERNMENT steals these to give to their STATE run companies. This theft affects us all, most specifically, in the pocket book. Thank the creator for blessing Canada with an abundance of natural resources so it doesn't affect us that much, but woe if we weren't because we do not, as a society, have the fortitude to stnad up to it anymore. We are the lackey's on the world stage. Thank goodness Harper is in there now or I don't know what would become of us and our panty-waste attitude.

Thats funny, cause I'm a card carrying member of the Conservative party, and before that, the Alliance and Reform. I have no problem with protecting intellectual property, but this is not restricted to the Chinese. Whats the difference between a Canadian or Canadian corporation stealing from another Canadian versus a Chinese stealing from a Canadian?

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by CarlW

Seeing as how NTP patents are a joke I don't think using the RIM case as an example of industrial espionage is viable.

two court rulings and a $600M settlement says otherwise

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

Thats funny, cause I'm a card carrying member of the Conservative party, and before that, the Alliance and Reform. I have no problem with protecting intellectual property, but this is not restricted to the Chinese. Whats the difference between a Canadian or Canadian corporation stealing from another Canadian versus a Chinese stealing from a Canadian?

One: The Chinese governement is funding this.

It is espionage all the same and illegal.

[White Doors]

Of course it's not restricted to the Chinese, but this the subject of this thread. Canada needs all the competitive advantages it can get right now in order to compete with China's cheap labour. Protection of patent rights across international boundries is right up there in the terms of the most important things we can do.

[Zarathustra]

Just like the Japanese stole American technology during the 50's and 60's? This is nothing new.

[HOZ]

Hey so did the Russians in the 1920's, 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, and so on.....

I guess it is ok!

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Hey so did the Russians in the 1920's, 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, and so on.....

I guess it is ok!

Reading comprehension is not your strong point I see. I didn't say it was OK, but this type of stuff has been happening for years and many different countries have been involved.

[Knut]

The RIM ruling was BS... In Canada and every other country in the world the Blackberry Technology was perfectly legal.

At the same time as the proceedings, NTP actually lost the right to their patents in a seperate trial, but since the trial began before that ruling the loopholes in the legal system meant that RIM was still "liable". If anything this situation will remedy a problem with the US patent system where there can be patent holding companies that dont use them.

In fact, I read somewhere (cant find the link) that IBM and Intel are lobbying for clearer patent laws, as I quess there are a lot of legal loopholes and "unclear" language.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Hesla

The RIM ruling was BS... In Canada and every other country in the world the Blackberry Technology was perfectly legal.

At the same time as the proceedings, NTP actually lost the right to their patents in a seperate trial, but since the trial began before that ruling the loopholes in the legal system meant that RIM was still "liable". If anything this situation will remedy a problem with the US patent system where there can be patent holding companies that dont use them.

In fact, I read somewhere (cant find the link) that IBM and Intel are lobbying for clearer patent laws, as I quess there are a lot of legal loopholes and "unclear" language.

NTP sues RIM for patent infingement. NTP wins. RIM appeals. Appeals go on for a while, with NTP winning all. Finally a settlement is reached. Word leaks out that some NTP patents may be thrown out. RIM decides to reneg on the settlement deal in hopes they can drag it out until the patents are thrown out. NTP files for an injunction against RIM operation in the US. RIM appeals these injunctions.

NTP had a couple of their patents thrown out. The US Patent Office actually issued a statement saying the remaining patents in the case would be under review, which is a step not usually taken. However the review wouldn't be complete for quite some time (years, since NTP could appeal any overturn).

The court case would remain pending for the outcome, but the NTP injunction to halt infinging sales/services still stands. RIM appealed the injunction based on the questionable patents, but the injunctions were all upheld since the patents are still in place and the courts can't assume they will be overturned. So RIM coughed up the dough since the uncertainty had killed their stock price. The payout didn't affect the stock price since the resolution meant no more NTP uncertainty.

And RIM has altered their systems to remove patent infingments.

Everyone follow that?

To sum up: The US Patent system is a mess.