India and Nukes

[SeeGeeWhy]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...tm?POE=NEWISVA

MOD EDIT: DO NOT post profanity with blocked out words.

This is just another shining example of why I hate American politicians. They can't take care of their own business properly, yet seem to be the self professed experts on what everyone else in the world should and should not be doing.

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by SeeGeeWhy

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...tm?POE=NEWISVA



This is just another shining example of why I hate American politicians. They can't take care of their own business properly, yet seem to be the self professed experts on what everyone else in the world should and should not be doing.

Huh? They are debating wether they shoudl share US nuclear knowledge with India, which is their call. Soem are looking for assurances that India will not be making nukes out of it. It's America's call who they share their Nuclear information with, not yours. Did you read the article?

[White Doors]

More like a shining example of your ideaology blinding you to reality.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by White Doors

Huh? They are debating wether they shoudl share US nuclear knowledge with India, which is their call. Soem are looking for assurances that India will not be making nukes out of it. It's America's call who they share their Nuclear information with, not yours.

Is it North Korea's call if they want to hand out nuclear knowledge to other countries? I think in these issues, input from other nations is important and necessary.

Not that I actaully think this is a huge deal. India already has nuclear technology, so I it's not like the U.S. is arming them.

Of course, if it allows India to build more powerful nuclear weapons, it's only a matter of time until China and Pakistan try to go even further. If they can't, they may decide instead to take India down a notch.

It's not a good region to be messing with the balance of power. I'm guess the U.S. makes up for it by making deals with China and Pakistan in the distant future.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by SeeGeeWhy

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...tm?POE=NEWISVA

MOD EDIT: DO NOT post profanity with blocked out words.

This is just another shining example of why I hate American politicians. They can't take care of their own business properly, yet seem to be the self professed experts on what everyone else in the world should and should not be doing.

I am really not sure what you are getting at. The US is contemplating sharing nuclear technology with India. Since it is their technology they have every right to worry how it will be used.

[SeeGeeWhy]

Originally Posted by White Doors

More like a shining example of your ideaology blinding you to reality.

Yeah, I don't think so.

You don't see any other nuclear capable countries looking to share the technology with India. Canada gave them Candu reactors, but not the blueprints for the bomb. I don't understand the argument that giving them nuclear weapons improves their power generating capabilities.. how? By threatening Pakistan to give them their electricity or else?

Anyways, you're an ******* if you think the powers that be don't have a hidden agenda with this.

The thing that ticks me off the most about it is that things were finally starting to cool down between India and Pakistan... now what will happen? Not to mention all of this is just east of the little gong show that we know as Iran.

[SeeGeeWhy]

HOZ, I am wondering why they are even bothering with this at this point in time. Are they priming themselves for a two pronged attack on Iran, perhaps?

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by SeeGeeWhy

HOZ, I am wondering why they are even bothering with this at this point in time. Are they priming themselves for a two pronged attack on Iran, perhaps?

Well you talked of an agenda and I agree. But the object of the agenda is different.

USA needs India to pressure Iran AND the US (and hopefully Canada soon) are gathering the allies in Asian...the soon to be economic engine of the world.

Right now the US and Japan are moving closer and closer because of China. India, the biggest Democracy (and soon to be THE BIGGEST NATION) is the other big democracy in Asia, is looking for friends since China is flexing their muscles. They also own part of the Kashmir.

China sold nuke technology to Pakistan and their friend North Korea added in their missile technology. India is feeling the squeeze with 1 million troops in the Kashmir and behind in the missile department.

So the US (and Canada) needs friends in Asia and India needs friends who can help.

Both have different needs and both can help each other.

[White Doors]

exactly, so why is the first poster so upset about the USA..

"This is just another shining example of why I hate American politicians. They can't take care of their own business properly, yet seem to be the self professed experts on what everyone else in the world should and should not be doing"

This doesn't even make sense.

And no, it is not the same as North Korea sharing their nuclear technology as N. Korea violated the non-ploliferation treaty and is in the UN's bad books.

The West needs an anchor against China and that is India.
Thank goodness for that.

[SeeGeeWhy]

My point, White Doors, is that the west* probably wouldn't need to be concerned about China (and all of the backdoor dealings and shenanigans apparently required to 'deal' with them) if they* were able to maintain their economy and domestic issues properly.

I don't see the EU getting all worked up about the Chinese powerhouse that is emerging.

* By "the west" and "they" I mean the USA

[SeeGeeWhy]

WD, HOZ... You two make sensitive foreign policy seem like it is nothing more than a game of risk between half-brained friends. Are either one of you American?

White, your point about NK violating the UN's non-proliferation treaty is a load of crap since the UN is basically a lap dog to what the US wants to do anyway. I don't think I've seen the UN produce ONE useful initiative outside of Canadian led peacekeeping missions. Funny, but have you read any statistics on how much the US's nuclear arsenal has proliferated over the past two decades? What makes them stockpiling and sharing information okay over other nations? They're the only nation to ever use the weapon offensively, why should they be trusted to be in control of it?

[White Doors]

I thought our economies were in an upswing? What;s wrong with our domestic issues? You think the West is a force for evil? You think it's unwise to manage your nation's self interest in the world? If so, then you must hate ALL nations as they all do it. The USA is just the most powerful one.

If you don't see the EU worked up, then you aren't looking closely enough.

[SeeGeeWhy]

Originally Posted by White Doors

I thought our economies were in an upswing? What;s wrong with our domestic issues? You think the West is a force for evil? You think it's unwise to manage your nation's self interest in the world? If so, then you must hate ALL nations as they all do it. The USA is just the most powerful one.

If you don't see the EU worked up, then you aren't looking closely enough.

Well, the US is an interesting thing. Job rates are apparently up (which to many means the economy is great), but I think the figures are for entry level jobs, and how useful of a figure is that? You've got the automotive industry teetering on the brink of collapse - which would be a MASSIVE blow if it were to happen... it would probably spark a depression, the housing market is finally starting to turn - it's up to the Fed reserve to control the rate at which it cools, a tough job to say the least, global foreign policy of the states (read: military action) is causing quite a bit of instability in energy prices... to the point where a 200% increase in average cost per barrel of oil has been sustained, US manufacturing is biting the dust because of China, outsourcing of medium rate jobs continue, the number of degrees granted for people in the sciences is declining rapidly, the health care system sucks because no one can afford it - and it isn't even profitable anymore for the doctors who run it, Mexicans taking over the southwest, Congress has removed the cap on the national deficit they are willing to take on (10 trillion... should be surpassed by sometime around January next year if the war continues), saving rate for the average american is as low as it has been since the great depression, credit card debt continues to grow for nearly every american.

Yes, things are surley pointing up, aren't they?

As for domestic issues... education, health, infrastructure, gun violence, defense are all in shambles and continue to be despite all the hoo-rah talk of the current presidency.

Canada is going to be deeply effected by whatever happens to the US, so despite as well as some of our regions are doing, we still have things to worry about.

Mexico is.. well, Mexico. One a positive side they did discover a huge il reserve in the Gulf that they can claim as their own.

The west is not a force of evil, but the states have this perpetual notion that they need to be in control of everything at all times in order to be safe. Taking out dictators here, adding dictators there... not reigning in corporations despite henious activity that would not fly on US soil.. they've done it since post WWI and it doesn't look as though they are going to stop anytime soon.

I'm sorry but the way the mighty empire is going it only seems to be so long before it implodes, and it is going to have a huge impact on my life. So yeah, sue me if you think that it bothers me that the US feels like it can run amok when it is obvious that things could be a littler better if they focused on "home" a little more.

And yes, I do hate that ALL nations play these BS games.

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by SeeGeeWhy

WD, HOZ... You two make sensitive foreign policy seem like it is nothing more than a game of risk between half-brained friends. Are either one of you American?

White, your point about NK violating the UN's non-proliferation treaty is a load of crap since the UN is basically a lap dog to what the US wants to do anyway. I don't think I've seen the UN produce ONE useful initiative outside of Canadian led peacekeeping missions. Funny, but have you read any statistics on how much the US's nuclear arsenal has proliferated over the past two decades? What makes them stockpiling and sharing information okay over other nations? They're the only nation to ever use the weapon offensively, why should they be trusted to be in control of it?

It's just reality man. It's been going on since civilization began. I'm surprised you seem to think it's something new that's happening here.
I'm not American at all, do you call people who disagree with you American? Are you a teenager? UN a lapdog of the US? HAHAHA!! man oh man, I'm sure the yanks would get a laugh out of that one!

When was the last Canadian led UN Peace Keeping mission? So you're saying that Canada is some sort of benign force of 'good' in the world or something? That's just blind, peace-nik nationalism man. Are you a liberal party member?

Who's going to take their nukes away from them?? And they have used them responsibly, that was in WW2 of which I am sure you have next to no knowledge of.

[SeeGeeWhy]

Maybe I'm just jealous of the guy holding the big stick then. Call me crazy but I don't want to get hit when he starts swinging. No, it's not a new thing, I know that.

I asked if you were American because your arguments sound as if you were. No offense.

The UN is a load of crap and you should know that much. Maybe calling it a lapdog of the US was a bit strong, but at the very least the US ignores anything they have to say.

I know Canada has been involved in peacekeeping missions in Rwanda and Bosnia/Herz in the mid 90s... I am pretty sure what we are doing in Sudan, Haiti and Afghanistan currently count for something, too.

Please don't accuse me of being a liberal party member, I'm pretty sure I can have the mods ban you for that! ;-) I actually think it is stupid to align yourself with a party for any period of time. People change. Just one more reason why I'll never be PM.

Nuclear weaponry is a bane to humanity period. I don't like how many nations try to use it as a trump card to get what they want. It just shows that you have no influence whatsoever if you have to resort to violence... the truly powerful can get what they need without lifting a finger in aggression.

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by SeeGeeWhy

Well, the US is an interesting thing. Job rates are apparently up (which to many means the economy is great), but I think the figures are for entry level jobs, and how useful of a figure is that? You've got the automotive industry teetering on the brink of collapse - which would be a MASSIVE blow if it were to happen... it would probably spark a depression, the housing market is finally starting to turn - it's up to the Fed reserve to control the rate at which it cools, a tough job to say the least, global foreign policy of the states (read: military action) is causing quite a bit of instability in energy prices... to the point where a 200% increase in average cost per barrel of oil has been sustained, US manufacturing is biting the dust because of China, outsourcing of medium rate jobs continue, the number of degrees granted for people in the sciences is declining rapidly, the health care system sucks because no one can afford it - and it isn't even profitable anymore for the doctors who run it, Mexicans taking over the southwest, Congress has removed the cap on the national deficit they are willing to take on (10 trillion... should be surpassed by sometime around January next year if the war continues), saving rate for the average american is as low as it has been since the great depression, credit card debt continues to grow for nearly every american.

Yes, things are surley pointing up, aren't they?

As for domestic issues... education, health, infrastructure, gun violence, defense are all in shambles and continue to be despite all the hoo-rah talk of the current presidency.

Canada is going to be deeply effected by whatever happens to the US, so despite as well as some of our regions are doing, we still have things to worry about.

Mexico is.. well, Mexico. One a positive side they did discover a huge il reserve in the Gulf that they can claim as their own.

The west is not a force of evil, but the states have this perpetual notion that they need to be in control of everything at all times in order to be safe. Taking out dictators here, adding dictators there... not reigning in corporations despite henious activity that would not fly on US soil.. they've done it since post WWI and it doesn't look as though they are going to stop anytime soon.

I'm sorry but the way the mighty empire is going it only seems to be so long before it implodes, and it is going to have a huge impact on my life. So yeah, sue me if you think that it bothers me that the US feels like it can run amok when it is obvious that things could be a littler better if they focused on "home" a little more.

And yes, I do hate that ALL nations play these BS games.

The States GDP grew by 3.4% last year. Enough said. The only other intelligible thing you said was the deficit and debt of the USA, but that debt as a % of GDP (which people who know about these things use) is still lower than alot of other countries. Our GDP grew by almost 3% last year, healthy growth all around. The rest of your post is pure claptrap of someone who watched too much news and has little economic knowledge or historical perspective.

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by SeeGeeWhy

Maybe I'm just jealous of the guy holding the big stick then. Call me crazy but I don't want to get hit when he starts swinging. No, it's not a new thing, I know that.

I asked if you were American because your arguments sound as if you were. No offense.

The UN is a load of crap and you should know that much. Maybe calling it a lapdog of the US was a bit strong, but at the very least the US ignores anything they have to say.

I know Canada has been involved in peacekeeping missions in Rwanda and Bosnia/Herz in the mid 90s... I am pretty sure what we are doing in Sudan, Haiti and Afghanistan currently count for something, too.

Please don't accuse me of being a liberal party member, I'm pretty sure I can have the mods ban you for that! ;-) I actually think it is stupid to align yourself with a party for any period of time. People change. Just one more reason why I'll never be PM.

Nuclear weaponry is a bane to humanity period. I don't like how many nations try to use it as a trump card to get what they want. It just shows that you have no influence whatsoever if you have to resort to violence... the truly powerful can get what they need without lifting a finger in aggression.

The UN IS a load of crap as you put it, I was laughing that you called it a lap dog of the USA which it most certainly isn't.

Canada invented the niave concept of peacekeeping to colve the Suez crisis in Egypt. It only works in very limited circumstances and even then the results are not very good. Peace MAKING is what we are doing in Afghanistan. In any case, Canada has been a bit player on the peace keeping role in the world for over 20 years now. It just doesn't work.

I think Nukes are a great thing. Do you think if humanity didn't have them the cold war wouldn't have gotten hot? It's what keeps civilization going. Once the powerful have the ability to kill each other many times over, it doesn't make much sense right? M.A.D. google it. Same reason that it would be so dangerous for terrorists to actually get a nuke.

[Reaper]

Is there always a man on the grassy knoll?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by White Doors

Same reason that it would be so dangerous for terrorists to actually get a nuke.

And they WILL eventually get some. There is no stopping it really, all we can do is try and delay it for as long as possible.

As nuclear technology gets spread more, and when there is so much money that can be made from selling it - it's only a matter of time.

That is precisely why people get a little apprehensive about trading and handing out nuclear technology to anyone. It makes it more likely that it can fall into the wrong hands.

[White Doors]

They may get one, but the technology itself will hamper their ability to actually be able to have it hit North America. But there is a chance down the line that they will be able to do so.

Now see why the USA is wanting to build a missle defence shield. Nuclear weapons in the hands of stable democracies do not represent any threat.

And yes, there always seems to be many men on the grassy noll.
haha