Can you prove GW Bush served?

[calf]

Linky McLink


(CNN) -- The founder of the group Texans for Truth said Tuesday that he is offering $50,000 to anyone who can prove President Bush fulfilled his service requirements, including required duties and drills, in the Alabama Air National Guard in 1972.

The group made the announcement as Bush was in Las Vegas, Nevada, to address the National Guard Association's convention.

"Today would be a fine day for him to finally answer all the questions that have dogged him since he entered public life," the group's founder, Glenn Smith, said in a statement.

"Bush's dishonesty about missing from service during Vietnam goes to the heart of his presidency. He was dishonest then just as he is misleading us about why we went to war with Iraq. He dodges responsibility then just as he dodges responsibility for Iraq today."




Sounds like he's confident Bush didn't complete his service requirements. He's in for a double-whammy of a loss if someone can provide the proof he wants that the requirements were met.


:wwf:

ps to Cowperson, Bingo, et all - I'm loving the new emotocons!!!

[RougeUnderoos]

50 grand for these people is peanuts. He'll get more mileage out of this than he would paying a lot more for airtime on a major network.

Now if someone would only start hacking on Cheney and his uncontested "I had other priorities" comment and his Astaire-like draft dodging, I'd be happy.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos@Sep 15 2004, 03:36 AM
50 grand for these people is peanuts. He'll get more mileage out of this than he would paying a lot more for airtime on a major network.

Now if someone would only start hacking on Cheney and his uncontested "I had other priorities" comment and his Astaire-like draft dodging, I'd be happy.

I've always found your obsession with that quote curious.

Cheney was 27 and married with a family when John Kerry went over to Vietnam. His other priorities were probably his wife and kids. I think your draft dodging charge is wrong regardless. What basis do you have for that statement? The quote?

He entered government service in '69. It's not like he ran to Canada or something.

The statement might have seemed cold on the surface, but I get the feeling it was truthful...that his first allegiance at the time was to his family...and I respect that.

Am I missing something or are you just making coments based on bitterness?

[RougeUnderoos]

He got his first deferment in 1964 and he enrolled in some community college to get it. Nothing wrong with community college, but he had quit/flunked out of Yale not long before that. He wasn't married and he didn't have any kids at that time.

In the end he scored 5 deferrments, and only one of them was because he had a wife and kids.

He wimped out. I can't blame him -- I would have done the same thing -- but 30 or 40 years later I wouldn't be so low as to question the bravery and service of a decorated volunteer soldier. And he's never said anything else about it (far as I know), so that's the only quote I have to work with.

I guess though that there is some bitterness. A fatass wimp and a draft-dodging p*sstank have somehow turned it all around and made a real soldier look like an unpatriotic chump.

On another level, I do admire the cunning stunt that pulled that trick off.


*dates and reasons were from memory -- if the facts were wrong then I take no responsibility -- you may be thinking "hey, he can't do that", but I just did.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos@Sep 15 2004, 04:40 AM
He got his first deferment in 1964 and he enrolled in some community college to get it. Nothing wrong with community college, but he had quit/flunked out of Yale not long before that. He wasn't married and he didn't have any kids at that time.

In the end he scored 5 deferrments, and only one of them was because he had a wife and kids.

He wimped out. I can't blame him -- I would have done the same thing -- but 30 or 40 years later I wouldn't be so low as to question the bravery and service of a decorated volunteer soldier. And he's never said anything else about it (far as I know), so that's the only quote I have to work with.

I guess though that there is some bitterness. A fatass wimp and a draft-dodging p*sstank have somehow turned it all around and made a real soldier look like an unpatriotic chump.

On another level, I do admire the cunning stunt that pulled that trick off.


*dates and reasons were from memory -- if the facts were wrong then I take no responsibility -- you may be thinking "hey, he can't do that", but I just did.

Well, if that's the case then I have no problem with what you've been saying. I was just aware that he was somewhat older than Bush and Kerry and that he was married quite young.

[MarchHare]

This is from a Rollingstone article on Cheney:

Thanks to Lyndon Johnson's escalation of Vietnam, lounging around was suddenly no longer an option. Cheney snapped into action. First he enrolled in Casper Community College; then he went to the University of Wyoming. That kept him out of the draft until August 7th, 1964, when Congress initiated massive conscription in the armed forces. Three weeks later, Cheney married Lynne Vincent, his high school girlfriend, earning him another deferment. Then, on October 26th, 1965, the Selective Service announced that childless married men no longer would be exempted from having to fight for their country. Nine months and two days later, the first of Cheney's two daughters, Elizabeth, was born. All told, between 1963 and 1966, Cheney received five deferments.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story...ion=6.0.11.847&

[Displaced Flames fan]

You know, that story in Rolling Stone is shameful.

It makes it sound as if Cheney got his wife pregnant to avoid the draft.

I'm sure that's NOT the case.

Disgusting really.

[metallicat]

I thought Bush received an honourable discharge...

Does the military not kick people out or give then some sort of a dishonourable discharge if they skip out on their requirements?

[Mike F]

Originally posted by Displaced Flames fan@Sep 15 2004, 05:28 PM
You know, that story in Rolling Stone is shameful.

It makes it sound as if Cheney got his wife pregnant to avoid the draft.

I'm sure that's NOT the case.

Disgusting really.

It's shameful and disgusting for them to point out that, after a history of doing exactly what was required to avoid the draft just in time to do so, he coincidently decided to start a family right when it would be the only thing that would guarantee his safety?

Lots of families base decisions on when to start a family on external lfe factors. What makes you so positive that they didn't decide to push up the schedule to keep him out of the war?

You know, you keep saying that you're a swing voter who has been known to say things supportive of Kerry or critical of Bush et al, but if so they must be posted somewhere else because they never seem to show up here.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by oilers_fan@Sep 15 2004, 06:35 PM
I thought Bush received an honourable discharge...

Does the military not kick people out or give then some sort of a dishonourable discharge if they skip out on their requirements?

If your old man is George Bush (or any other high-powered, wealthy person of any political stripe), you can get a lot of things done for you. If these documents are legit, there was preferential treatment.

One soundbite/paraphrase from the Bush camp said basically "we don't know if they are real or not". Which also means "it's possible that they are real".

If he had fulfilled his obligations and done everything properly, it'd be pretty easy to prove it methinks.

DFF -- I agree -- implying that he knocked up his wife to get out of service is weak. I've seen the "coincidentally, his daughter was born 9 months and 2 days later" from other sources and it is a headshaker. Babymaking just isn't that simple. No doubt though (IMO) before that he was trying his darndest to keep his tail on friendly soil.

[metallicat]

This whole thing to me is ridiculous anyways...so is the whole Kerry and Vietnam BS. I really don't care what these two people did way back when I wasn't even born. Sure Vietnam was a critical part of history, but I am far more worried about the future than the past. I want to know what these two people are going to do to better the US, and better the world. Obviously being a Canadian I can't vote, but I still think Bush is the man for the job this year.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally posted by Mike F+Sep 16 2004, 12:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike F @ Sep 16 2004, 12:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Displaced Flames fan@Sep 15 2004, 05:28 PM
You know, that story in Rolling Stone is shameful.

It makes it sound as if Cheney got his wife pregnant to avoid the draft.

I'm sure that's NOT the case.

Disgusting really.

It's shameful and disgusting for them to point out that, after a history of doing exactly what was required to avoid the draft just in time to do so, he coincidently decided to start a family right when it would be the only thing that would guarantee his safety?

Lots of families base decisions on when to start a family on external lfe factors. What makes you so positive that they didn't decide to push up the schedule to keep him out of the war?

You know, you keep saying that you're a swing voter who has been known to say things supportive of Kerry or critical of Bush et al, but if so they must be posted somewhere else because they never seem to show up here. [/b][/quote]
You are a selective reader, Mike F. That's not my problem.

You also have an affinity for replying to anything I post that happens to contradict your point of view. Again, that's not my problem.

Put the two together and it's not hard to see why you think I'm a liar.

Forgive me for having a little more faith in human beings than you do.

[EddyBeers]

well it may be true that it was shameful to imply that Cheney had a kid to avoid the draft, but I think we can all share in the undeniable conclusion that he was a p*ssy and that Kerry is a much braver man then he. It takes an inconceivable amount of bravery to send innocent kids to die while you reap the rewards of said war. Cheney clearly has a vested interest in the future success of Haliburton, as his deferred payments would likely not be forthcoming if the company went belly-up. What a p*ssy.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally posted by EddyBeers@Sep 16 2004, 03:10 AM
well it may be true that it was shameful to imply that Cheney had a kid to avoid the draft, but I think we can all share in the undeniable conclusion that he was a p*ssy and that Kerry is a much braver man then he. It takes an inconceivable amount of bravery to send innocent kids to die while you reap the rewards of said war. Cheney clearly has a vested interest in the future success of Haliburton, as his deferred payments would likely not be forthcoming if the company went belly-up. What a p*ssy.

So you're suggesting Halliburton would have failed without the Iraq contracts?

Do you have anything whatsoever to back that claim up?

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by EddyBeers@Sep 16 2004, 03:10 AM
Cheney clearly has a vested interest in the future success of Haliburton, as his deferred payments would likely not be forthcoming if the company went belly-up.

If Halliburton goes broke, Cheney doesn' t get paid what is owed to him for prior service before he was vice-president. True.

If the earth gets hit by a giant comet, we're' all gonna die. Also true.

One as likely as the other.

A more level-headed examination of Cheney and Halliburton and Iraq in this article, which includes tons of criticism and innuendo for the deeply suspicious.

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040216fa_fact

Cowperson

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Come now Cow, weren't the same things said about Enron? A company THAT large certainly can't go pffffft over night. I think Enron showed that it can. I agree that its highly unlikely, especially now with the enfusion of cash they just got, but anything can happen. We don't know how honest anyone's books are anymore.

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by Lanny_MacDonald@Sep 16 2004, 12:14 PM
Come now Cow, weren't the same things said about Enron? A company THAT large certainly can't go pffffft over night. I think Enron showed that it can. I agree that its highly unlikely, especially now with the enfusion of cash they just got, but anything can happen. We don't know how honest anyone's books are anymore.

Given the plummetting stock market in July 2002 arising from just those concerns, USA lawmakers, if I remember right, required corporate executives of publicly traded companies to personally sign off on their books by mid-August 2002.

It was basically the last free shot to do so before tough jail time for executives would be the next result of an Enron calamity.

There were a few that were able to gain exemptions into roughly the November time frame as they put their accounting affairs in order if I remember right.

The measure erased a lot of investor trepidation over this issue.

Anyway, without having the stats in front of me, I think there are about 6,000 publicly traded companies in the USA and about 30 had Enron like issues that came up, about one half of one percent of the total. Too many but its not really a significant issue right now.

So . . . . . long winded answer is that Halliburton was probably going to live long enough - Iraq or not - to pay Dick Cheney a few hundred thousand bucks a year for three to five years. Inferring otherwise is a little extreme.

Regarding his stock options, my understanding is they are in a charitable trust and beyond his control. Period.

Was he pedalling influence? That's a legitimate debate point.

My thoughts.

Cowperson