Canada severs relations with 'terrorist' Palestinian government - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

transplant99 · 03-30-2006, 10:41 AM

Interesting that Canada is the first after Israel to just say no to Hamas.

Good call I believe.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/30032006/...overnment.html

moon · 03-30-2006, 10:59 AM

How long until they cut ties with the equally bad and offensive, if not worse, Israeli government?

Lanny_MacDonald · 03-30-2006, 11:02 AM

We'll find out shortly. I think this has the potential to become a real divisive issue in the world. The Palestinians voted (democratically) and elected their representative. If other Islamic nations continue to recognize this group as the Palestinian leadership, and the West (following the lead of America) refuses to acknowledge them as the legitimate governing representative, it continues to reinforce everything the Islamists say about the West.

Personally, I think this is Harper sucking up to Bush and trying to improve relations between Canada and US. I think it is very short-sighted and is a mistake. The way the PLO really cut back on their hardcore terrorist activities was when they were recognized as the people's spokesman. Failure to recognize the people's elected representative is not going to sit well with the Palestinians and definitely not good with Hamas. Myopic move IMO.

transplant99 · 03-30-2006, 11:04 AM

So you advocate association with known terrorist orginizations that would include trade talks and such?

Just curious.

Lanny_MacDonald · 03-30-2006, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Personally, I think this is Harper sucking up to Bush and trying to improve relations between Canada and US.

And speaking of which...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060330/..._canada_mexico

I hope Harper didn't spend too much time on his knees trying to get Bush to sport some Canadian soft wood!

moon · 03-30-2006, 11:10 AM

Hey they were voted in legally and democratically.

I think it is scary that is the choice the people made but having to live with the constant threat of being murdered by the Israeli government may hvae made the "terrorists" look like the best option.

I think that if we are going to deal with a government like Israel we might as well deal with the terrorists as well. If Canada wants to severe ties with both, I would be fine with that too. Hell, I would prefere to deal with Hamas than the Israeli government but no way that would happen.

Lanny_MacDonald · 03-30-2006, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by transplant99

So you advocate association with known terrorist orginizations that would include trade talks and such?

Just curious.

Why not. I live in the United States and promote trade with this country.

Most rogue governments have less that squeak clean beginings. Give them a chance and see if they can change their ways after being given the responsibility of representation. By not giving them a chance you encourage the negative behaviour and likely increase the terrorist threat. If they are complete nut jobs and won't negotiate, sever ties. That is much more effective as it shows the people they at least had a chance.

Cheese · 03-30-2006, 11:11 AM

Canada has relations with other countries that "might" be construed as terrorist... Cuba & China come to mind. I guess its the degree of terrorism and who they are terrorizing.

transplant99 · 03-30-2006, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Give them a chance and see if they can change their ways after being given the responsibility of representation.

I dont disagree with this at all.

Unfortunately, the platform for Hamas , and the reason they were created afterall, was to promote the annihalation of the Jewish state and in turn the whole Jewish entity.

IF, and its a huge if, the Hamas leadership change that stance and show a willing ness to NEGOTIATE change rather than force it, then by all means (and Canada will lead the way here as well) all Western countries would be able to re-open things.

Unfortunately for everyone involved, I just dont see that tiger changing its stripes anytime soon.

transplant99 · 03-30-2006, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheese

Canada has relations with other countries that "might" be construed as terrorist... Cuba & China come to mind. I guess its the degree of terrorism and who they are terrorizing.

Cuba has launched terrorist attacks on other countries??

News to me.

Lanny_MacDonald · 03-30-2006, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheese

Canada has relations with other countries that "might" be construed as terrorist... Cuba & China come to mind. I guess its the degree of terrorism and who they are terrorizing.

And whether recognizing them would **** of the President of the United States and not have him open the border to softwoods.

SeeGeeWhy · 03-30-2006, 11:26 AM

I'd like to hope that it is more of a "nah-nah-nah boo boo, you can't come to my birthday party" kind of thing towards Hamas. A reverse psychology saying that if you are going to continue to want to wipe Jews off the face of the earth, we are not going to recognize you.

I don't necessarily agree that you can just get up and apply modern day conflict resolution theories (kinder, gentler.. apparently) to a hatred that is embedded within the layers of many generations and expect it to succeed... but I suppose it is a start.

Nor do I agree that Canada not recognizing Hamas is going to care that we refuse to recognize them. So what? What do we have to offer to Palestinians?

I'd like to think that Hamas is just as well to have the rest of the world "ignore them" while they continue their fighting with Isreal.

Anyways... I say this because it is in the best interest of the world to not have major, far-sweeping, and potentially very damaging conflicts like this hanging around.

At least I'd like to think that is greater motivation than methaphorically sucking G-Dub's wang.

Weiser Wonder · 03-30-2006, 11:29 AM

Speaking of this issue, if you guys have a chance to see "Paradise Now", do it. It's an amazing film and it's perspective on suicide bombings is one you rarely see.

FireFly · 03-30-2006, 11:30 AM

What % of peoples elected them in? IIRC, wasn't it more of a protest vote with the rest of the vote being split to allow them in?

Also, the Israelis said yesterday that they are looking to pull their people out of certain areas in order to promote a peace treaty with the Palestinians. I would suggest if the Hamas avoid terrorist tactics in the future, Canada will reopen relations with them.

transplant99 · 03-30-2006, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireFly

What % of peoples elected them in? IIRC, wasn't it more of a protest vote with the rest of the vote being split to allow them in?

Also, the Israelis said yesterday that they are looking to pull their people out of certain areas in order to promote a peace treaty with the Palestinians. I would suggest if the Hamas avoid terrorist tactics in the future, Canada will reopen relations with them.

. "Hamas won 44 percent of the popular vote but 56 percent of the seats, while Fatah won 42 percent of the popular vote but only 34 percent of the seats

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palesti...ection%2C_2006

Lanny_MacDonald · 03-30-2006, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

Speaking of this issue, if you guys have a chance to see "Paradise Now", do it. It's an amazing film and it's perspective on suicide bombings is one you rarely see.

Fantastic film. Really sparked a heated debate on IMDB. Sure made you think, especially about the shame some people in the region made feel. Very powerful and made a very strong point.

SeeGeeWhy · 03-30-2006, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireFly

I would suggest if the Hamas avoid terrorist tactics in the future, Canada will reopen relations with them.

I agree with this comment.

Cheese · 03-30-2006, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by transplant99

Cuba has launched terrorist attacks on other countries??

News to me.

well like I said...its the degreee of terrorism tranny.

transplant99 · 03-30-2006, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheese

well like I said...its the degreee of terrorism tranny.

I guess...just dont know where that line is drawn however.

I think the obvious thing here is that Hamas is, and has been since inception, a terrorist group in any definition of the word.

Remember how the US was chided for being friendly with Bin Laden before he was heading up Al Queda? People all over the world ripped on them for propping up what turned out AFTER the fact, the biggest orginizatiuon of its kind in existance.

Now you have a situation where it's widely known the tactics and platform of a group that does the same thing. Now the West (Canada for now, US and many others will follow) is going to get clobbered for NOT wanting to enter into agreements/diplomatic relations with the same kind of entity. Elected democratically or not, these are some bad ass folks in this group.

Sort of damned if they do, damned if they dont scenario.

Lanny_MacDonald · 03-30-2006, 12:34 PM

^^^^ Okay Tranny, lets try this one out.

bin Laden returns home to Saudi Arabia and manages to get the country to boot the royals, turning it into a "democratic" country. He, and his Al Qaeda party, gets elected and he is now the new ruler of the country. Does the United States recognize the government?

Remember that Saudi Arabia is something that Palestine is not, a country with something that America greatly covets. Whaddaya think?