Advice Re Situation with Rental Property

[T-Dog]

Hi all,

I'm looking for some advice on a situation we have with our rental property because I'm really not sure how to handle this one. We have an rental in Calgary - it is a typical late '60s bungalow with 3 bedrooms up and 1 down, about 1100 square feet.

In June of last year we rented the house to a family of 4 from Ukraine (mom dad and two younger kids). In December of last year, they contacted us to say some family members were also coming to Canada and if it was ok for them to stay - the additional family is the is the husband's brother, his wife, their two adults kids, husband's mom and their dog. I said this would be ok for a temporary arrangement, but that the house was not big enough for 9 people and a dog.

We have subsequently had some issues with high humidity and mold in the house - due in part to some issues with the house, but also I think due the number of people in the house.

Their lease was for one year and expires at the end of May. They have reached out now to say that the new family members haven't been able to find work. They have no timeline at all on when they may be leaving, but are begging me to let them continue to stay in the house when the lease expires. Their kids are in local schools and I'm sure they wouldn't be able to find another house in the neighbourhood where someone would rent to 9 people.

I'm really torn on this - I am sympathetic to their situation - We actually hosted a different family from Ukraine for 7 months rent free in our own house and have been very supportive of Ukrainian refugees. However, I am not at all excited to have so many people plus a pet in the house when that wasn't the deal and there is apparently no end in sight to the situation. They are also not overly clean, the dog is yappy and the kids seem out of control whenever I am at the house, banging the floors and walls, etc.

I'm not even sure if it is legal to have so many people in the house or if it creates an issue for my insurance policy.

So what's the best way to handle the situation?

[Geraldsh]

Change from yearly lease to monthly and announce a rent increase effective July first. Explain the additional costs involved in house wear and tear due to overcrowding. Tough love sort of approach. Summer construction season may bring work opportunities to them.

[Bill Bumface]

I don't think your humidity issues are from too many people. If they're damaging it otherwise, absolutely deal with that.

[timun]

The thing about the humidity is specious. It's almost certainly due to something being wrong with the house. Potentially it's due to the occupants not using bathroom exhaust fans properly; you may have to explain this to them.


You should talk to your insurance company. With that many people living in the house it's not unlikely that there are makeshift bedrooms set up in rooms which legally do not qualify as bedrooms, i.e. they do not have the requisite means of egress (e.g. a window) in the event of a fire. You could be exposing yourself to liability by letting them stay.

[DoubleF]

Saw it off and say no. As timun said, you might be exposing yourself to additional liabilities. End the lease without renewal, then go in and figure out what the humidity issues are and remediate before they get worse/make the tenants ill from the mold and expose you to extra liability or excessive damage to the home.

It's not your responsibility to bend the rules for them. If they need to go out and rent two homes due to the amount of people and insurance reasons, then that sucks for them, but those are the rules to adhere by. And seriously speaking, you're probably hurting more than helping by letting them stay in a home with potential mold issues and bending the rules on their behalf if your insurance doesn't cover that many people in the same dwelling.

Things might be a little different if the families were really good and quiet and model tenants, but they're not and you already have uneasy vibes about them.

At max maybe you can extend it one month to an exit date of June so that the kids finish school before moving, but I would definitely suggest insisting on May as much as possible for liability reasons and so that they can't keep pushing "oh you let us an extra month, let us longer". Also, I think the rental rates I believe would be slightly better if in May than in the summer.

[GGG]

My initial reaction was you have to let them stay. But then if you follow that logic I should be sending you money to help offset your burden of letting them stay and if I’m not willing to do that then why should you have to put up additional funds or risk.

So I think you should determine if there is a way to keep your self while and risk free. If you can confirm with insurance about liability being covered and any fire code /occupancy concerns and ensure you are safe that way then I think you determine a reasonable cost for the additional wear and tear and give them the option of staying. You are supporting them without eating all of the risk and cost.

If you can’t ensure the potential fire code issues are mitigated then I don’t think you have an option but to evict

[TopChed]

It's a tough situation OP and there's good advice in this thread, but I'll also add that after dealing with tenants, a lot of them have no idea how to adjust a humidifier and can often set it far too high in the winter, which leads to all kinds of moisture problems. If they also aren't good about using the bath fan when showering or the hood fan while cooking, it can compound with no real issue in the home to resolve aside from tenant habits.

[RichieRich]

That many people breathe out a lot of humidity, use a lot of hot shower and tap water, boil and cook many foods. Plus might be additional contributing factors. As others have pointed out there are multiple risks here and at minimum the occupants must be educated that they are probably causing the problem and the solution is expensive to you and results in them being forced to leave either sooner or later.

[curves2000]

Being in the rental business myself, I know how torn you can be. 9 people in a house is a lot and it does have increased wear and tear on items. I have had some refugee tenants before and I sympathize with their situations as my parents and grandparents came to Canada as post war economic refugee's from Europe.

You could use this opportunity to raise the rent substantially to cover increased wear and tear, say another $500 a month or something. I am not sure your current rent is but rent's have gone up in the last year.

Out of control kids and yappy dogs is an issue for virtually every family. Try and minimize your downside risk by looking at how the living arrangements are. Do they have mattresses next to the furnace and hot water tank? Are they using the natural gas line to hang their clothing? Are the smoke detectors all still in working condition? Who's paying for the utilities ?

Maybe you can extend them a couple of months till the summer so that the children can still stay in the same school?

Whatever decision you do make, make it fairly quickly as May is quickly approaching. You will need time to find new tenants, make any repairs for the humidity issues etc and they need A LOT of time to try and find new accommodations, it's TOUGH out there at the moment.

Best of luck to you and to them! Nothing wrong with being a rare good person in life and helping people out when they are down and out but you don't want to be taken advantage of either.

[Northendzone]

i feel like you should also get someone to look at the mold and try and get a sense of what is causing it.

i am thinking that long term living with mold likely is not good for a person.

You may also want to generally inspect the place. with 9 people living in there you don't want to get into a fire situation that turns into a real safety hazard.

[photon]

With that many people I'd be doing pretty frequent inspections.

Wouldn't the location of the mold be an indication? I had one rental once where the tenant complained about mold in the bathroom, but I was sure it was because they never used the fan.. there were no issues anywhere else in the house. We put in a humidity triggered switch when we repaired the bathroom.

Now I want to get a WiFi enabled humidity sensor to monitor the humidity of my rentals.

[OutOfTheCube]

Lots of people are conveniently and indefinitely "unable to find work" when they're freeloading off family members.

If you remove the "Ukrainian refugee" element of the story, which is an emotional pull / angle, it becomes exceedingly obvious that you're being taken advantage of and need to tell them to move on. It's unlikely you would've agreed to the five additional occupants in the first place, right?

[jwslam]

We live in a world where if your mold problem gets worse, they're gonna sue you for causing them health damage...

I would get them to GTFO.

[blankall]

Obviously, you have to sympathize with them. 9 people in 1100 square feet is a lot of people in a small space. That's about 120 sq feet/person, which is a 10' x 12' space. I'm sure this is far from their ideal living situation too.

I'd immediately talk to your insurance about it. If it voids your insurance, that's, unfortunately, a big no for the ongoing rental. Renting a place without insurance can lead to a disaster for both the landlord and the tenant. If a serious injury or a fire arises from having all those people in there, then you're looking at potentially losing everything you have, and the tenants potentially being unable to recover for their injuries.

[activeStick]

I also have a rental property. Protect your investment, the place, like you said is not meant for 9 people and a pet. Give them notice (feel free to give them a bit more, say 3-4 months if you really feel like it) and tell them they have to go back to the original tenant count by then or face forced eviction.

[Fuzzy14]

Unfortunately, this sounds like a scenario where your continued kindness will end up costing you thousands of dollars in damage to your property, which you will never recover. Give them notice that you will not be renewing the lease and they will need to move on.

If we've learned anything about Ukrainians, it's that they're tough resourceful people. They'll find a way to make it work.

[T-Dog]

Thanks for all of the input. I agree it isn’t an easy situation. I thought I’d add a few points to clarify some of the comments.

Regarding the humidity issue, we have installed exhaust fans in the upstairs bathroom and kitchen and instructed them on ways to reduce humidity. The exhaust hose on the dryer did not have a good seal, so I have fixed that and hopefully that helps to reduce the humidity. There is no humidifier on the furnace for the house (and in fact they bought a small dehumidifier that I don’t think did much). At times the humidity was reading as high as 75%. I’m not sure what can cause such high humidity issues. I think the dryer hose contributed to the issue and also think having 9 people living, showering, cooking, washing cloths and just breathing in a smaller house can compound the humidity.

I have remediated the mold, but am worried it could come back if the humidity issue hasn’t been addressed by the dryer repair. Again, they don’t seem overly clean and I think would help if they were on top of any sort of mildew starting to form.

I did contact the City to see if there are any bylaw restrictions and it seem like it is ok as long as we are complying with the window egress requirements for fire safety. They have set up extra beds in the basement TV room, which does have a large window that is Code compliant for egress. I also contacted my insurer and they reviewed the policy with me. I was able to reflect on the policy that there are two families living in the house, so it seems like that issue is also dealt with.

I like the suggestion of given them some options – i.e. you can leave at the end of may when the lease expires or if you want to renew, the rent will go up by $300-400 per month as long as there are 5 extra people and a pet in the house and they also need to pay a pet deposit. I could even give them the option to stay an extra month until the end of June when school ends.

[Huntingwhale]

I can sympathize with your situation as a landlord, as I have a couple from Ukraine staying with us full-time. While my wife and I are super sympathetic to their cause and do what we can do help (split rent payments bi-weekly, flexible with utility payment times, etc) it's a fine line to not feel like I am being taken advantage of while also trying to help people literally forced from their homes and moving to a country that is a) relatively difficult to adjust to when coming from Eastern Europe, and b) a city that is expensive and hard to find affordable accommodations, regardless if you compare it to more expensive cities like VAN or TOR and come out of it thinking it's cheaper here.

Not a situation I envy you being in, and I'm sure there is stress on their part too, worrying if they will get the boot one day or not and where to go next, how to save for a deposit, schools, etc. I commend you for dealing with the issues in a professional manner and ensuring codes and regulations are compliant. Fact is, a lot of that stuff simply doesn't happen in Ukraine when it comes to codes/regulations (believe me, I know) so most of what you speak might be new for them to hear when speaking of those things.

I think the concept of increasing the rent due to new arrivals is more than fair and if they are good people they will understand that. We have already had that discussion with our tenants that if the one guy's Mother and brother arrive from Crimea one day, that the rate will have to go up after a short grace period and that is simply how it works here. I think you are being more than fair in being flexible with timings and such.

My opinion is that it's good to be sympathetic to their situation and do what you can to help (I think you have done so already), but you have to look out for your own interests and protect what is yours. It's the same for me. Happy to help where I can, but bills still have to get paid and if it doesn't work out with them than we will find someone else who it will work out with.

Good luck to not only you, but to them.

FYI - I am sure they have done this already, but make sure they have all applied for and received their $3k they are entitled to upon arriving. Goes a long way.

[ken0042]

If you are going to be kind enough to give them the extra month of June for school- make sure you get that in writing that it is just the one extra month as a good will gesture. My concern would be that by just giving them one month- you have now turned their lease into a month to month rental. That could give them some leverage for extra time after June 30th.

Obviously IANAL- but just a thought.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by ken0042

If you are going to be kind enough to give them the extra month of June for school- make sure you get that in writing that it is just the one extra month as a good will gesture. My concern would be that by just giving them one month- you have now turned their lease into a month to month rental. That could give them some leverage for extra time after June 30th.

Obviously IANAL- but just a thought.

Yeah, write a fixed term extension with a new termination date of June 30th if you want to do that. If you start accepting payments without that it becomes month to month which is much more difficult to terminate.