Let’s Talk About MAID

[Northendzone]

I did a search and did not find anything on this topic and no, not someone who cleans a house

I read this article today and found it interesting in terms of someone who is suffering with a medical condition - albeit a mental one - is likely not be able to get medical assistance in dying - but if they had some incurable physical disease it might be a different story

https://nationalpost.com/feature/tra...tance-in-dying

My mom wound up living the last 7 or so years of her life with Alzheimer’s, dementia and had no real quality of life. She spent her days in a wheelchair parked in a common room with a tv on

I hope that in the next few years I’d be able to make arrangements to opt for MAID should I ever be diagnosed with some mentally debilitating like this

[Delthefunky]

My mom's in the exact same position and I've thought the exact same thing. Knowing who she is, If she could see herself there's no question what she would want.

[Coys1882]

My mom chose MAID in September 2021, a scheduled date for her to die which was the worst two weeks of my life.

I can't really explain what it was like the day of, because it was such a surreal experience.

She was bedridden, always on pain meds, but 100% lucid so to me, it seemed wrong and I had trouble processing it all. I pushed the anger down because it was what she wanted and I didn't want to ruin it. She had everyone she loved around her - looked us each in the eye and said goodbye and that was it.

It wasn't what I wanted but ultimately it's her decision to die on her terms and I think I've come to accept that. But #### me what a trip it was. Not sure I've offered anything of worth here but my experience. Felt good to type out though.

[troutman]

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showth...onal+directive

Updated:

https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cj-jp/ad-am/bk-di.html

[Jiggy_12]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

My mom chose MAID in September 2021, a scheduled date for her to die which was the worst two weeks of my life.

I can't really explain what it was like the day of, because it was such a surreal experience.

She was bedridden, always on pain meds, but 100% lucid so to me, it seemed wrong and I had trouble processing it all. I pushed the anger down because it was what she wanted and I didn't want to ruin it. She had everyone she loved around her - looked us each in the eye and said goodbye and that was it.

It wasn't what I wanted but ultimately it's her decision to die on her terms and I think I've come to accept that. But #### me what a trip it was. Not sure I've offered anything of worth here but my experience. Felt good to type out though.

I feel that. My Father chose MAID at the end of 2020 and you nailed the feeling of that day and the weeks leading up to it. Most surreal day of my life

[nfotiu]

My Dad chose it in late summer 2019. He was an incredibly active cycler in his 70s and got a terminal pancreatic cancer diagnosis out of nowhere. He was pretty thin to start with and lost a lot of weight pretty quickly. Tried some chemo to help him get a few extra months but did more harm than good and was extremely happy that MAID was an option for him.

The biggest stress for him during that time was that he knew he had to be fully in control of his mental faculties to choose it. A couple months before he chose it, he was in a pretty awful spot of not being able to keep any food down or get out of bed and he started trying to arrange for us to get there quickly. Him being on Vancouver Island, and me living in Virginia with a couple young kids I had full custody of, it was a stressful year (Looking back, it is very lucky for all of us, it was just a year). Pancreatic cancer makes a mess of all your organs and chemistry, and he did go to the Dr. the next week and they found something in his bloodwork they were able to address, and he ended up actually having a very nice couple months where he was riding with my mom, and my kids and I had a very rewarding visit with him on an upswing.

He went downhill pretty quickly over the following month or two, and the time became more obvious, but he was still himself and went out on his own terms. I was there for the day or two before and it was incredibly surreal hanging out with your dad, who you knew was scheduled to die in a couple days. But it was so relieving to be able to be there with my mom when it happened. He and my mom felt so much peace that he could do that on his own terms and once it actually happened, it was very peaceful.

The one thing I would change is the stress that he had about making sure he didn't wait too long. In the end, it was definitely the right time, but it would have been very tragic if he and my mom missed out on that last special month because he felt pressured to choose it too soon.

That said, it is miles ahead of where we are in the US and it was such an amazing thing for my dad whose biggest fear was being an invalid that was a burden to anyone. I didn't actually even know it was a thing in Canada until my Dad told me that was his plan. It caught a lot of my American friends/family/coworkers off guard when I told them

[keenan87]

Suicide is preventable. People want the pain of living to end, they don't want to die.

What if someone uses it as a means to die by suicide due to various negative factors in their life? When indeed, they just need the stigma to be reduced and someone to listen to them. How does one draw a line on that when it comes to the debate of mental health being a reason for MAID?

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

My mom chose MAID in September 2021, a scheduled date for her to die which was the worst two weeks of my life.

I can't really explain what it was like the day of, because it was such a surreal experience.

She was bedridden, always on pain meds, but 100% lucid so to me, it seemed wrong and I had trouble processing it all. I pushed the anger down because it was what she wanted and I didn't want to ruin it. She had everyone she loved around her - looked us each in the eye and said goodbye and that was it.

It wasn't what I wanted but ultimately it's her decision to die on her terms and I think I've come to accept that. But #### me what a trip it was. Not sure I've offered anything of worth here but my experience. Felt good to type out though.

R, thanks for sharing buddy.

[opendoor]

I think the Canadian system is needlessly restrictive in terms of timing. Having to basically schedule a date ahead of time and (as mentioned above) having to consider future competency in determining that just creates a bunch of stress for everyone.

I think Oregon's system is much better. If you're eligible, you just get a prescription from the doctor and take it whenever you want. Or don't. Some people get the prescription because it gives them comfort knowing they have that option, but don't end up using it.

[GGG]

I think one tragic side affect is cases where there are uncovered drugs or other treatments that cost money we are essentially allowing poor people to kill themselves because they can’t mitigate pain through treatment. This isn’t a problem with maid it’s just maid exposing a health care problem

https://www.canadaland.com/madeline-...d-out-of-life/

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

I did a search and did not find anything on this topic and no, not someone who cleans a house



I read this article today and found it interesting in terms of someone who is suffering with a medical condition - albeit a mental one - is likely not be able to get medical assistance in dying - but if they had some incurable physical disease it might be a different story



https://nationalpost.com/feature/tra...tance-in-dying



My mom wound up living the last 7 or so years of her life with Alzheimer’s, dementia and had no real quality of life. She spent her days in a wheelchair parked in a common room with a tv on



I hope that in the next few years I’d be able to make arrangements to opt for MAID should I ever be diagnosed with some mentally debilitating like this

I have a friend who is an LPN at a home for seniors with severe dementia and Alzheimer's. Let me tell you, this sounds like no way to live out your final years.

Sorry for your loss.

[Coach]

Thank you to those sharing stories. Very interesting to hear about those final days.

My grandfather had a stroke a few years ago. He was 89 and lived a long healthy life until then. He was rendered a vegetable basically. There was talk in the family of letting him go, and if they gave him a pad and pen he could have decided for himself, but they decided to let him fight it out. Personally consider his life and where he was after the stroke, I was pretty sure that we should let him pass. But he fought back within a few months to a place where he could actually move and interact. No speaking, and most of him was immobile, but when I visited him he grabbed my hand tight and I looked in his one good eye I could tell he knew who it was. It changed my mind a bit that maybe it was worth having that last year and a bit for him.

He passed away the following year. I dunno if it was me I may want out. But if you can still have interactions with loved ones...yeah I dunno. Tough to know the type of pain and suffering others are in, especially if they can't talk.

[Northendzone]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I have a friend who is an LPN at a home for seniors with severe dementia and Alzheimer's. Let me tell you, this sounds like no way to live out your final years.

Sorry for your loss.

thanks, i was sad for my mom, but happy as she finally got a release.

to those of you that have been through this thanks for sharing your thoughts. I have to admit, I had not thought about the days leading up to the appointment

it will be interesting to see how the legislators move this issue forward with respect to dealing with those who are suffering mentally

[Bigtime]

My wife's grandmother chose this last year, and went through with the procedure in December.

She was 97 and her quality of life was going downhill fast (mobility, eyesight), she was still completely sharp of mind and wanted to go out on her own terms.

In the week leading up the date she had lots of friends and family visiting, so much so that she was overwhelmed by it all really and just tired.

My wife and I talked to our two kids about if they wanted to be there for the procedure. Our 10yo wanted to, and the 13yo wanted to stay at school that day and hang out in the art room when it was happening, and have me text any updates.

I went with my wife and one daughter, and honestly my plan was to stay in the waiting room while the rest of the family and friends went to the procedure room with her.

Ultimately I ended up going to the room too. We had Reverend John Pentland from Hillhurst United there to "officiate" the day. An amazing person that can bring everyone together. He led all of us through group discussions bringing up all the things everyone was thankful to Golden (her name) for. Laughter, tears, hugs, a very emotional experience in the room.

Then the nurses came in (they had been amazing up to this point, getting drinks and anything else Golden and others needed in the waiting room) and asked Golden if she was ready. She said she was ready to go get prepped. They wheeled her out of the room and then the doctor performing the procedure came in and talked to us about how it would all go, and how this is still a very new thing to them as well and they are learning as they go too.

So we all went down to the procedure room, which was like your typical single bed hospital room. Nice big window with light streaming in. Golden was in the bed and had it propped up. The doctor had administered some medicine to relax her. Family gathered all around the bed any my 10yo lay next to her on one side. Reverend John led everyone around the bed again in one more round of saying thanks and goodbye. Then Golden simply stated she was "Ready to join the feast", and the doctor asked if she was ready. To which she replied "yes". The doctor administered the first dose of the drug that would put her into a coma, and then about 3 minutes later she would administer another shot of it. We were told at her age the coma alone would simply stop her breathing. At about 2 minutes since the first dose Golden asked the doctor for more! She definitely had her mind made up about this. The doctor laughed and said don't worry she would be administering the next dose shortly. Then about a minute later she simply closed her eyes and fell asleep in front of us. About 1 minute after that she passed.

It was surreal, it was sad, it was happy, it was joyful. It was what she wanted and after a life long lived she got to say goodbye to everyone and leave on her own terms.

Personally I'm glad I chose to go into the room with everyone, I had known her for 16 years and felt that I was exactly where I was supposed to be in those moments. My 10yo also looks back positively at being there that day too, she loves big and her presence there with Golden at the end was perfect (she was named after Golden's late husband).

So that's my story about MAID, probably a bit rambly but wanted to put it out here in this thread too. If anyone has questions about the whole thing I may be able to answer some, my wife worked with Golden a lot about getting this approval over the last year and a bit so I can always find out more from her if needed.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

I feel that. My Father chose MAID at the end of 2020 and you nailed the feeling of that day and the weeks leading up to it. Most surreal day of my life

It definitely sounds unfathomable for everyone involved in the days/weeks leading up. I'm sure this is oversimplifying, but is it just kinda that the grieving process starts early?

I wonder if it also removes a coping sentiment: "at least they are no longer suffering"...it's probably a bit harder to make that argument pre-emptively.


And this might be a really bad analogy here, but I think it might speak a bit to our emotional/logical fallacies: many people have no problem eating meat despite knowing it came from an animal who may have had a poor QOL and was killed in its prime...but we might also struggle to watch that happen or pull the trigger ourselves. There might be something 'easier' about just waiting for that inevitable phone call that a parent/loved one has passed instead of having to confront it, even if you logically know that the MAID option means less suffering.

[nfotiu]

One of tougher parts is that we are the first generation of adult kids/spouses to go through it. There aren't a lot of people to talk to, to share experiences on what to expect. Every person going through it, and all their loved ones will all handle it very differently.

The only life experiences I had to draw on was having to put a couple dogs down. It's on a different scale, but it definitely had a lot of the same feelings. For me, in all of the cases, the dread leading up to it was awful, but the actual experience was quite peaceful and brought a sense of relief. And then a bit of guilt for feeling the relief countered by the feeling that he was happy to be able to go out on his own terms.

[Cycling76er]

Originally Posted by GGG

I think one tragic side affect is cases where there are uncovered drugs or other treatments that cost money we are essentially allowing poor people to kill themselves because they can’t mitigate pain through treatment. This isn’t a problem with maid it’s just maid exposing a health care problem

https://www.canadaland.com/madeline-...d-out-of-life/

There was a young woman here in Winnipeg that chose MAID because she couldn't get proper home care. I think she was 43 years old. It was a really heartbreaking story to read

Edit - link: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...eath-1.6605754

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Cycling76er

There was a young woman here in Winnipeg that chose MAID because she couldn't get proper home care. I think she was 43 years old. It was a really heartbreaking story to read

Edit - link: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...eath-1.6605754

Tough read, but I'm also not sure that 24/7 or 16/7 home care publicly funded is a reasonable alternative. I get not wanting to enter LTC, and obviously it's impossible dial in the exact right time that is neither too early nor too late. Sometimes there is simply no 'just' outcome.

[Jiggy_12]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

It definitely sounds unfathomable for everyone involved in the days/weeks leading up. I'm sure this is oversimplifying, but is it just kinda that the grieving process starts early?.

Yeah, it’s weird.

Speaking for myself, once hope of recovery was lost and the end was coming near, my Dad made his decision but there was still a process to be approved. We saw it as such a win once he got the approval. Which is weird in itself, celebrating that.

Then once that sinks in, and the day is picked…then it’s this weird somber countdown. An inevitability that is fast approaching and there is just no way to explain how to deal with that.

You try to be happy that your loved one gets to go on their terms with minimal suffering, but knowing the date and time of death in advance is just a surreal feeling.

That whole month leading up and the few weeks after feel like a fever dream.