Scouting,Drafting and Developing.

[Flaming Horse]

The Flames have been better than recent years but are still not good enough. With the big money being handed out like Halloween candy and the contracts to be given out in a couple of years, it will be important to excel in these areas. The bottom six forward group and 3rd D pairing will need to be filled out with more affordable players. Players on ELC contracts will be very important. The issue I have with the drafting is not enough speed, especially in the first round selections. Too many small, guys with skating issues. Pelletier,Zary, and even Coronato is not that fast. They will need to do a good job in these 3 areas to be able to fill spots with guys from the farm team to keep a competitive team. I like how Aaheim seems to draft big players but they have speed and skill.I like that model. The Flames need to get faster. Tonight we will get a good look at what we have in the pipeline and hopefully they can put on a good show.What do you guys think of the scouting, drafting and developing of the flames?

[DJones]

Given what we've had to work with our drafting and development is top notch since Treliving came in.

[AustinL_NHL]

Yea, I have very minimal complaints about what Tre & the scouting staff have done since he took over.

[Burning Beard]

A number of players have graduated to the main team with a couple more on the way. Seems ok to me.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flaming Horse

... Too many small, guys with skating issues. Pelletier,Zary, and even Coronato is not that fast...

I was under the impression that both Pelletier's and Coronato's skating is just fine. What am I missing, here?

I think the bottom line is that at the draft a team needs to do the best they can with the picks they have to work with, and this typically means drafting the best player available with a high emphasis on puck-skills. This is precisely what the Flames have been doing for a while, now. The thing is, drafting where they typically draft also means that they are never in a position to draft perfect players. All that to say I don't have much at all to complain about with the Flames's drafting and development. They seem to be doing quite well with what there has been for them to work with.


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[Canada 02]

2018 draft had 3 prospects of 5 draftees who signed pro contracts, despite the highest pick being the 4th round

2019 draft had 4 prospects of 5 draftees sign pro contracts

2020 draft had 6 prospects of 8 draftees sign pro contracts

I think this indicates that the scouting and drafting has been good. Once you get these players in the system, it is up to the development team to turn them into NHL players. Realistically, I would not expect more than 10% of signed prospects to turn into bona fide NHLers

[TheScorpion]

Pelletier is a great skater. Zary isn't small. So I'm not sure what the issue is with either.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

I am not sure the Flames model is really any different than the Ducks model, other than the Ducks are rebuilding and picking earlier in the draft. All teams want big, fast, skilled, smart players.

I sometimes wonder if their recent European picks have been sound, but the sample is too small and we need more time before we should pass judgement.

[The Cobra]

The recent Flames drafts have been very good, considering where they picked.

Not sure how anyone can complain about that.

[gvitaly]

First of all the Flames have been one of the better teams at drafting. The problem is that we traded a lot of draft capital in trying to contend. Tre got here in 2014, but I believe his first real draft was 2015.

2015 - 5 picks no first rounder
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Andersson(53rd overall), Kylington(60th), Mangiapane(166th)

that's a home run draft and development right there. However some players take time to develop, like shown by Kylington finally popping last year.

2016
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Tkachuk(6th), Dube(56th), Fox(66th).

Again it seems like a home run of a draft. That draft still has some guys with potiential to play in the NHL like Phillips(166th).

2017 - no 2nd or 3rd rounder.
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Valimaki(16th), Ruzicka(109th)

The Flames did well on their first two picks of the draft. Both players have shown a good skill-set, but Valimaki's career took a bit of a nose dive after injuries which has nothing to do with either drafting or development.

2018 - No picks until the 4th round
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No notable players here, but that's expected when your first pick is 105th overall.

2019 -
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Pelletier(26th), Wolf(214th).

This draft is looking solid so far, but we're in the too soon to tell territory. The players from this draft are only now starting to be in the conversation for spots on the team, so they are largely an unknown at the NHL level.

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It's hard to do a lot better than that with the picks the Flames had, without using a crystal ball. That's why, in my opinion the drafting and development has become a strength of this team.

[Flaming Horse]

we have also seen more emphasis lately on drafting bigger. The SUTTER effect. The one main priority of importance is drafting guys lately with more of an edge to their game.Guys with high compete. Time will tell and lets hope the current crop has a guy that really elevates his game and can in the near future really surprise and snag that top six role. I am interested to see how Duehr can do at this tournament. Older guy at 24 but he is big and fast. I would like to see him grab that fourth line RW and move Lewis to a 13 forward position.He could some needed speed to the lineup. I am looking forward to see what the young guys can do.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flaming Horse

we have also seen more emphasis lately on drafting bigger. The SUTTER effect. The one main priority of importance is drafting guys lately with more of an edge to their game.

Have we actually? I am not convinced at all that there has been a drafting-philosophy shift in the duration of Treliving's tenure. Can you illustrate otherwise?

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[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Have we actually? I am not convinced at all that there has been a drafting-philosophy shift in the duration of Treliving's tenure. Can you illustrate otherwise?

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The OP probably means in picks in later rounds. I have also noticed that the Flames started drafting bigger lately instead of going for smaller guys. Is it a draft philosophy? or simply taking the best player available? I'm not sure.

Here's going from 4th round picks and up, excluding goalies.

Sutter
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2022 - 5. Bell(F - 6'4") 7. Littler(F - 6'3")
2021 - 5. Jordan(D - 6'2") 6. Beck(F - 5'11") 6. Ciona(F - 6'2")
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2020 - 5. Francis(F - 5'9") 6. Kerins(F - 5'10") 7. Solovyov(D - 6'3")
2019 - 4. Feuk ( F - 6'0") 5. Noodler (F - 5'11")
2018 - 4. Pospisil ( F - 6'2") 4. Kumontzis (F - 5'10") 4. Roman (F - 6'0") 6. Pettersen (F - 5'10") 7. Zavgorodny(F - 5'9")
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2017 - 4. Ruzicka (F - 6'4") 5. Fischer(F - 6'1") 6. Joly(F - 6'3") 7. Sveningsson(F - 6'0")
2016/2015 - had Phillips and Mangiapane as notable smaller players.

It did seem as though the Flames were drafting more smaller forwards in the 2018-20 range, however they again drafted 'big' in 2017. The sample size is too small. I suspect that the Flames simply didn't have any smaller players they liked where they were picking over the last 2 years, with Beck being the exception.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Flaming Horse

The Flames have been better than recent years but are still not good enough.

How are you measuring this?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Pelletier is a great skater. Zary isn't small. So I'm not sure what the issue is with either.

Many Many years of pour drafting is the issue. It's hard to trust again, especially if you watched the drafting during the "Young Guns" era.

[Flaming Horse]

Originally Posted by the2bears

How are you measuring this?

Just look at the last couple of years. There wasn't even anybody good enough to make the fourth line. This is why a guy like Rooney is signed and you had guys like Ritchie playing significant time last year. Nobody was ready. You think there would be at least somebody who could be good enough to fill out the fourth line. You are excepting mediocrity if you are using the excuse of where they are drafting.Look at the Blues. Kyrou and Thomas were later picks. Kyrou in the second round and Thomas 20th overall and they won the cup just a couple of years ago.They have been a better team then the flames and they were picking lower than them.

[Flaming Horse]

If we were ranking the flames from the area of scouting, drafting and developing where would they rank out of the 32 teams over the last 5yrs.Take off the homer glasses first.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Flaming Horse

Just look at the last couple of years. There wasn't even anybody good enough to make the fourth line. This is why a guy like Rooney is signed and you had guys like Ritchie playing significant time last year. Nobody was ready. You think there would be at least somebody who could be good enough to fill out the fourth line. You are excepting mediocrity if you are using the excuse of where they are drafting.Look at the Blues. Kyrou and Thomas were later picks. Kyrou in the second round and Thomas 20th overall and they won the cup just a couple of years ago.They have been a better team then the flames and they were picking lower than them.

The biggest factor in the Flames not having a better prospect pool is a lack of picks. Jordan Kyrou was picked 35th overall. That year the Flames drafted 6th overall (Tkachuk) and then 54h (Parsons), 56 (Dube). They didn't have a pick in the Kyrou range because they traded it for Brian Elliot. That's a bad trade in retrospect, but not bad drafting.

But moving on they also drafted Adam Fox at 66.

That's a spectacular draft that has netted 3 NHLers and 2 elite NHLers

Robert Thomas was drafted 20th overall in 2017. That year the Flames drafted Valimaki at 16. With the benefit of 20/20 hindsight yes they should have drafted Thomas (or Norris) but at the time and until injuries de-railed him - Juuso looked like a fine pick.

If you want to raise a hypothesis that the Flames are bad at drafting, you have to go beyond cherry picking names. Actually do the work to properly evaluate the efficiency of their picks.

Again my conclusion is that lack of picks is the problem, not what they do with them.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Flaming Horse

If we were ranking the flames from the area of scouting, drafting and developing where would they rank out of the 32 teams over the last 5yrs.Take off the homer glasses first.

How about you make your points without calling people homers.
Then maybe people will be more open to discussing.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Many Many years of pour drafting is the issue. It's hard to trust again, especially if you watched the drafting during the "Young Guns" era.

Sure but can we admit that what happened under previous regimes is almost entirely irrelevant?