After Days to Reflect

[Coach]

Well, I'm going on a much earned vacation and want to put the phone and computer away for a while. But I have a lot of thoughts on the last few days and feel like I won't be able to do that without getting them out somewhere, so read if you want.

When Iginla, Kipper and Regehr et al made their exits, it was, by that point, a welcome change. Sad to see legends leave, and returns were mostly underwhelming, but largely there was a feeling of needing to turnover and move on. We thought we were in for a tough haul without much hope in the pipeline or on the younger side outside of a blossoming Brodie, Gio flirting with #1 capabilities, a promising young center, and a diminutive winger lighting up the NCAA with (completely speculative) rumblings of wanting to loophole his way to the East.

That group would yield some surprising early results, largely built on the back of the addition of Gaudreau's unique skillset to the squad. After early struggles to adapt, he eventually was able to bring his slippery game to the NHL level. He brought a dynamic to the team that many fans had never seen before, giving the building a buzz of excitement every time he touched the puck. For all Iginla did for this team, I don't remember ever remember the feeling of anticipating something never-before-seen that Johnny could provide. One of the most, if not THE most entertaining players to wear the Flaming C.

Since the additions of Lindholm, Tkachuk, Hanafin, and the growth of Mangiapagne, Andersson, Kylington, etc... I've been optimistic that this team can be a Cup contending squad. But the floundering under Gulutzan, Peters and Ward, and my personal issue with the NHL product overall, had my interest waning extremely fast. I remember after the loss to the Sens talking to a non-hockey fan friend that It was over for me. I didn't want to waste my time watching this anymore. Then a few hours later, Sutter. And I had to see the outcome. So I was pulled back in.

It took a bit longer than I hoped, but this past season was exactly what I hoped and expected from this squad since Peters. It was fun to be a fan again. And Gaudreau in particular seemed to have reached a different level of growth as a player and person. And the contract scenario was out there, but the team seemed so tight knit, and he was having such an explosive year along side his teammates, I wasn't very worried to be honest. Watching that Game 7 OT goal felt like those old Nestea commercials where people take a sip and just fall backwards into a refreshing pool. I really thought we could get to at least the semis before running into COL. I'd be fine with bowing out to them in a good series. Hated going out against the Oil, and it wasn't the best finish, but it was a fun season. And it gave me hope that we had maybe a good 3-4 years of that. Pushes into the final 4 or even 2.

Even as contract talks came down to the final days and hours, I honestly wasn't worried. In fact, I thought that the tighter it dragged out like that, the more likely it was he would signed and it was all just a little cheeky posturing given his RFA strong-arming. But I truly thought if he planned on leaving he would have informed the Flames at least before the draft out of courtesy. And honestly, there just didn't seem like better options for him but to sign a deal for $10+ with the Flames.

Then when it broke he wouldn't return, I was very disappointed as I think we all were. And, I think like most of us, I wish it hadn't dragged like that. But also, I think again like most of us, I respect that he has his options and given the chance to play near home for a storied team from his area (potentially even his childhood dream team). Sucks as a fan of the team he's leaving, but I get it. I'd probably do something similar or at least be very drawn to seeing what my options are. But then when it was Columbus. For way less money. It just... didn't make sense. Still really doesn't in MY brain. But I think multiple dominos fell here that ended up where we are.

I think Johnny and his family have been discussing his options for a long time obviously. I think after the season he and his wife sat down and really chatted about where they'd like to be, keeping literally all options open. And when it came to the final few destinations there were some obvious ones (East coast) and probably some not so obvious ones (I'd be surprised if they weren't considering places like Detroit, California, and other small market teams like Nashville and Columbus). I don't doubt Columbus was in fact on their short list from the beginning.

Columbus is by all accounts a very nice little city. They have a good fan base but isn't hockey mad. There are good options for his wife in the area. As a competitive player, it could be looked at a number of ways. Maybe he really does just want to be out of the spotlight, quietly putting up 80-90pts, make some good money, and not worry too much about the pressure of winning. He could also see a cool opportunity to be not "one of the best a team has seen" but "the very best a team has ever seen". Columbus has had some fine players, but Gaudreau could build a legacy there too. One that has him being the face of a franchise that's never really had that face (sure there was Nash, but he was always pretty meh). Could really build some hockey love in Ohio, which could be cool.

I do think his agent f***ed up. I think by dragging it out they didn't allow Johnny's prime destinations (Philly, NY) time to plan for adding him. And when they couldn't, Johnny's camp reached out to the next tier of teams he was interested (I wouldn't be surprised if there were 2-3 more that just didn't have the capacity to add him).

I also think that something happened in the final hour(s) of Calgary negotiations that made it too hard to go back to them. I do think there was (at one time) the possibility that he could go to UFA, see the offers, and still return to the Flames on 7 year deal (so silly they can't keep offering the 8 after FA deadline). But that opportunity was smashed by the whole unsaid whatever that feels like it's hanging over everything. Something was said or done by someone involved that just made it an issue of self-respect/ego (not necessarily for just Johnny) to go back. Like a bad break up, where maybe you could and should go back, but things were said and done that just make it impossible. I wish we knew what these were, but probably never will.

It felt pretty rough for a while. Here I was excited about a few years of competitiveness and now the best player is gone. But we still have one of the games top LWers. And one of the games best 2-way C's. And one of the games best G's. And a D core that is pretty consistently strong through the lineup. And one of the games best EVER coaches. And decent forward depth. And some room to spend. And Zadorov.

So I'm optimistic about the future of the Flames, despite this harsh blow and the animosity around it. It is unfortunate. I have been a big fan of Gaudreau since his draft and all the way through. Would have loved to seem him stay here his whole career. And honestly would have even been happy for him and the Columbus fans if he had acted in better faith. But it's left a sour taste in this fan's mouth. Probably in the mouths of a lot of his teammates too. Hopefully motivates them to be better all around.

This said, I'll take a break for a while from paying to close attention to the team and hockey overall. If you read this....well good on ya.

Go Flames Go.

[bluejays]

Have you found a publisher for your book yet?

[Goriders]

I agree with what you said.

Honestly I think they can build a better playoff team with a few good moves and use of their cap space.

Although Johnny was the best Flame I’ve seen outside of Iginla. I never felt he could win us a cup. This season solidified that for me.

[SutterBrother]

Originally Posted by Coach

I also think that something happened in the final hour(s) of Calgary negotiations that made it too hard to go back to them. I do think there was (at one time) the possibility that he could go to UFA, see the offers, and still return to the Flames on 7 year deal (so silly they can't keep offering the 8 after FA deadline). But that opportunity was smashed by the whole unsaid whatever that feels like it's hanging over everything. Something was said or done by someone involved that just made it an issue of self-respect/ego (not necessarily for just Johnny) to go back. Like a bad break up, where maybe you could and should go back, but things were said and done that just make it impossible. I wish we knew what these were, but probably never will.

This is the only part of your well thought out post that I disagree with. I think with a child on the way and the knowledge he was going to be a pro for at least the next 10 years, he decided 1) He needed to be Eastern Time Zone, and 2) He needed to be in the same country as his extended family.

Parents who travel will perhaps understand this better than others. If you aren't American it can be difficult to understand how remote and small Canadian cities can feel. Again, only a handful of people here will really "get" it.

It isn't worth 15 million to do that for virtually anyone else, but given where he is in life, I suppose that made sense to him.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by SutterBrother

This is the only part of your well thought out post that I disagree with. I think with a child on the way and the knowledge he was going to be a pro for at least the next 10 years, he decided 1) He needed to be Eastern Time Zone, and 2) He needed to be in the same country as his extended family.

Parents who travel will perhaps understand this better than others. If you aren't American it can be difficult to understand how remote and small Canadian cities can feel. Again, only a handful of people here will really "get" it.

It isn't worth 15 million to do that for virtually anyone else, but given where he is in life, I suppose that made sense to him.

I agree 100% that being on the other side of the border was a huge factor. However, that does not, in any way preclude the point you disagreed with.

[Hack&Lube]

From all the insider information throughout the 2400+ posts in the Gaudreau thread, here is my summary of events:

1. After elimination, Flames offered him 8x9.5M

2. Gaudreau was undecided but his family/wife was pushing for him to leave Canada because of Covid travel restrictions, distance, etc. He is also welcoming his first child soon.

3. His heart was clearly on his home town team, the Flyers, but the Flames remained a serious option for him.

4. Tuesday the 12th - the Gaudreau camp issued an ultimatum to the Flames to match an offer of 8x10.5M + other conditions otherwise they would go to Free Agency. This is basically seen as handshake deal from the Flames side to meet their requests and the deal is done.

5. The Flames went out of their way to meet all the requests but got radio silence in return.

6. The Gaudreau camp finally responds at the 11th hour that despite meeting the ultimatum that they would go to free agency after all. At this point Murray Edwards reportedly broke out in anger and heavily admonished the Gaudreau side for reneging, handcuffing the team, dealing in bad faith, and unprofessionalism.

7. July 13th - The Gaudreau camp saw all the signs that the Flyers (the number 1 choice) were clearing cap space and assumed they would send an offer but no offer was forthcoming. They then turned to the Devils which offered a deal of 7x9M+ but there were snags in the negotiations such as they would not include a no trade clause.

8. Columbus announced their interest and Gaudreau's wife approved this choice as she had a lot of family in the area. That there is a famous children's hospital in Ohio may have factored into the decision in terms of care of their upcoming baby but not much in terms of her career as she isn't intending to work full time and is rather going to volunteer in various capacities. They sign for 7x9.75M after there are no other viable offers from the market.

9. Gaudreau is dealing with a lot of conflict and emotions and a last minute choice of Columbus so he cannot really commit to any comments about Calgary or provide any concerted reason to Columbus media for why he chose their team. In the end, it appears his family chose for him to end up there after the Flyers were no-longer an option. The fall-out in the final call with Calgary and the pressure from the family meant there was going to be no return to Calgary after free agency opened up.

[Phil Russell]

As someone who has spent their professional life on the other side of the border, and raised a family there, I can concur that it has come at a cost to family relationships. Closeness. Connections. My well-off but aging parents decided some time ago, for a variety of reasons, that they would no longer travel to the eastern US to see us. That created a lot of resentment on my end even if I did understand their reluctance. So I am sympathetic to that issue. I still think Johnny was wrong to handle the signing the way he did, but the family--distance--border issue is one I understand and Columbus addresses those issues even if it is located in a bordering state.

[CSharp]

Time and time again over the 8 years with Gaudreau and the rebuilt core of this team with Tkachuk is a middle of the pack team that cannot go beyond 1 or 2 rounds in the playoffs at best. Time to really find out if Tkachuk really wants to stay as a Flames long term wise. If his intention is to test the free agency, I really wish this organization will start to consider a proper rebuild if they can't retool. The Flames have pretty much gone through 2 mediocre rebuilds with one that came short of winning it all and the latter getting trounced in the first two rounds every other year. It's hard to move on from the past when the future looks even more uncertain for the Flames after loosing their star play for nothing and another talent might be lost in a similar fashion.

[Jordan!]

It's only game - A Wise man once said

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

From all the insider information throughout the 2400+ posts in the Gaudreau thread, here is my summary of events:

6. The Gaudreau camp finally responds at the 11th hour that despite meeting the ultimatum that they would go to free agency after all. At this point Murray Edwards reportedly broke out in anger and heavily admonished the Gaudreau side for reneging, handcuffing the team, dealing in bad faith, and unprofessionalism.

I don't think that's what was reported. All I saw was that there was reportedly a call by Murray to Gaudreau. People can speculate what was said, but I don't remember anything being actually reported. Could have been anything from begging to profane tirade. I'm guessing you could be close to right, but again, it's not what was reported AFAIK.

8. Columbus announced their interest and Gaudreau's wife approved this choice as she had a lot of family in the area. That there is a famous children's hospital in Ohio may have factored into the decision in terms of care of their upcoming baby but not much in terms of her career as she isn't intending to work full time and is rather going to volunteer in various capacities. They sign for 7x9.75M after there are no other viable offers from the market.

I think people are short sighted about this part a little bit. Gaudreau's kid(s) will eventually get older and not need a caretaker. And Gaudreau himself will be retired at 40 can be a caretaker too. It's totally possible she wants to work at that hospital in the longterm. Even people with wealth like to spend their time doing productive things.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Coach

I don't think that's what was reported. All I saw was that there was reportedly a call by Murray to Gaudreau. People can speculate what was said, but I don't remember anything being actually reported. Could have been anything from begging to profane tirade. I'm guessing you could be close to right, but again, it's not what was reported AFAIK.

I think people are short sighted about this part a little bit. Gaudreau's kid(s) will eventually get older and not need a caretaker. And Gaudreau himself will be retired at 40 can be a caretaker too. It's totally possible she wants to work at that hospital in the longterm. Even people with wealth like to spend their time doing productive things.

These were both reported quite clearly in the thread in the way I summarized. I left out other reported details such as Tre calling Gaudreau privately also after the Murray call. The first from someone with an inside track with the team and the other from a guy in Mexico who happened to bump into friends of Gaudreau's parents. Definitely a stretch to believe but also extremely plausible in light of the facts we have.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

8. Columbus announced their interest and Gaudreau's wife approved this choice as she had a lot of family in the area. That there is a famous children's hospital in Ohio may have factored into the decision in terms of care of their upcoming baby but not much in terms of her career as she isn't intending to work full time and is rather going to volunteer in various capacities. They sign for 7x9.75M after there are no other viable offers from the market.

It was actually Gaudreau's side that approached Columbus. They were surprised to be contacted. I believe after Philly/Jersey were out, they decided to be closer to his wifes family in Columbus.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by MrMike

It was actually Gaudreau's side that approached Columbus. They were surprised to be contacted. I believe after Philly/Jersey were out, they decided to be closer to his wifes family in Columbus.

No that was cleared up today as well. The way Gaudreau and Jarmo spoke about it in the interview made it seemed like they were surprised but a major sports journal said today that Columbus fielded their intent right after the free agency period started. It was a bit of a hail mary and they didn't expect to be in the running, hence their surprise. I edited my summary after I read that.

[GKDarts]

Can somebody post the link to the "Murray Edwards involvement" aspect. I haven't heard about that. Thanks

[GullFoss]

Is there a tl;dr version of this essay available?

[dino7c]

It's all just speculation

Fact is he went to a terrible team for less money...he doesn't really care too much about winning. As someone who defended him for years it's pretty telling his priority is not a cup so maybe dodged a bullet.

[Macman]

I’ve also been thinking about it the few days after now and what Gaudreau did was kind of a Richard move. I think we should be happy that he’s gone now as I don’t think you can win with guys like that. They obviously knew for a long time that they were moving on so then why couldn’t he be honest about it?

We’ll miss his points but I think the Flames will become a better team without him.
Enjoy your obscurity in Columbus Johnny. Is their coach Brad Larsen even any good, they missed the playoffs last year.

[nieuwy-89]

Great post, Coach.

I think there is still a lot of speculation about how this happened, but in the end it really doesn't matter. The Flames misread Johnny's intentions - badly. Even if Johnny wasn't upfront, it is the organization's job to know its players - what makes them tick, what drives them, what they really want to acheive in their career. Frankly, its the job of any leader in any organization.

It is incredibly naive to think a player will re-sign out of loyalty. We see every year that hockey is a business and loyalty doesn't matter.

I will continue to use the term "system failure" because this is not on one person, but on the whole franchise from the ownership to management to coaching staff. Someone had to have known, or had an inkling, that Johnny didn't want to be here. It wasn't a decision he made in 24 hours.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by GKDarts

Can somebody post the link to the "Murray Edwards involvement" aspect. I haven't heard about that. Thanks

->

Originally Posted by iggyntangs

Take this for what it's worth, but here's what I heard from a source (close to the Flames organization, I'm sure biased).

But earlier Tuesday, Gross came up with an ultimatum offer that said the Flames had to match, take it or leave it otherwise Gaudreau would test free agency.

The Flames by mid-day, met the offer to a tee and Gross and Gaudreau went radio silent for the rest of the day.

Came back hours before the FA deadline and were informed Gaudreau was testing FA (because of his family, wife specifically) to move out East.

Edwards was part of either that or one of these final calls (believe Treliving had a separate private call with Johnny directly after as well). But I'm the Edwards call, he flipped out and called out Johnny for playing games, wasting their time and handcuffing them, in a really unprofessional manner to do this after they met their exact ask.

The part I'm personally speculating about now is this is probably why Johnny hasn't really addressed The Flames, fans and etc. directly yet, likely very stung by the whole ordeal but I also think he knows he really botched this.

Last piece I'm personally speculating about is that I do not think Columbus was very high on his list but his wife was very open to it, especially after everything else fell thru on their top destination(s).

Take the above for what you will.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Goriders

I agree with what you said.

Honestly I think they can build a better playoff team with a few good moves and use of their cap space.

Although Johnny was the best Flame I’ve seen outside of Iginla. I never felt he could win us a cup. This season solidified that for me.

Agreed. He doesn't have the fire nor the willingness to use his body in the ways needed to overcome most playoff opposition.

He either fades or shies away from physical defending when all the chips are down and its do or die.

It was a great goal against Dallas to seal that series, but he was not nearly as dominant as when the games didn't matter as much and opponents were not as dialed in against him.

Hopefully Tkachuk can find "it" but so far he's fallen short too.