Gun Control - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Fozzie_DeBear · 12-08-2005, 03:05 PM

This should be a doozy...

The Liberals and their new gun control scheme

I like the 'tattletale' program, the amnesty program, and the increased funding for police to crack down on guns at the border. Making handguns illegal seems like optics to me (aren't they already illegal in 99.9% of the cases).

A good idea or a waste of $$$?

Your thoughts?
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Shawnski · 12-08-2005, 03:24 PM

Aren't Uzis, sawed-off shotguns, etc already banned? Aren't they still killing people as often or more than handguns?

Question... how many handguns have been found to be the cause of death AND have also been identified with the "gun registry" program since its inception? What percentage does this number related to overall gun related homicides?

I find this election platform an interesting case in optics.

Current CTV.ca poll...

Quote:

Do you think a ban on handguns will help reduce violence?

Yes 4315 Votes (22%)
No 14327 Votes (78%)

Ace · 12-08-2005, 03:58 PM

If the Fiberals messed up a simple registry program, how much worse would it be if they tried to take guns away...

MolsonInBothHands · 12-08-2005, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Jerrold Lundgard, president, Responsible Firearms Owners of Alberta -- "This is political grandstanding at it's worst"
Lundgard wrote a letter to Martin expressing his opposition to further restrictions for Canadians who legally own handguns.
"Just remember that a handgun ban will only take handguns out of the possession of law abiding citizens and no one else. A handgun ban will do nothing to take the individuals that believe it is acceptable to kill other humans off the streets of our cities," wrote Lundgard.
"Remember too that this proves to all firearms owners that registration leads to confiscation. Please remember too that confiscation without compensation is just plain theft."

I have to agree with this. I know many people (mostly farmers and/or hunters) who own firearms, but only ever knew one person with a sidearm, and they kept it at the range. It is the illegal guns which need to be targetted. This would just throw more fuel on the alienation of Western Canadians fire IMO.

Fozzie_DeBear · 12-08-2005, 04:18 PM

Don't forget that the 'ban' on handguns is only part of it...and the ban is a provincial call (I think), the package also includes something like:

$325M more for cops
A amnesty program where you trade your handgun in for $$$
and a tattletale program to reward people who squeal on illegal handgun owners
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MolsonInBothHands · 12-08-2005, 04:29 PM

While I can't see a reason anyone would want a handgun in their home, I am not willing to make a law stating they can't have one. In all honesty, they scare the **** out of me, and just the thought of kids finding and playing with one makes me sick to the stomach.
I have no problem with increased funding to law enforcement, it might mean less traffic tickets for me.

If the government wants to buy handguns, make stiffer penalties for gun related crimes, and have "Gun Stoppers" to report illegal firearms fine, but making them illegal outright I am not sure about. I think it targets law abiding citizens (again), more focus needs to be put on the source of guns used in crimes, not on the registered ones.

Resolute 14 · 12-08-2005, 04:36 PM

This is a ploy for votes in Toronto, which has had a rather large number of handgun murders this year (by Canadian standards).

Otherwise, it is a completely worthless gesture that fails to target criminals.

In other words, it is a typical Liberal idea: poorly thought out and unlikely to have a positive impact.

Agamemnon · 12-08-2005, 04:59 PM

I never understood why handguns have been legal for the past 50 years. What use could they have other than killing? I love the 'self-defence' argument. I think your chances of dying in an altercation greatly improve when you whip out your gun... though, so does the other guy's.

Now if only the States would follow suit... not going to happen.

Mike F · 12-08-2005, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

This is a ploy for votes in Toronto, which has had a rather large number of handgun murders this year (by Canadian standards).

Otherwise, it is a completely worthless gesture that fails to target criminals.

In other words, it is a typical Liberal idea: poorly thought out and unlikely to have a positive impact.

Give me a break.

Here in Vancouver there have been a number of handgun deaths recently, with a high profile one this week in which a local skateboarder was shot and killed outside a club when he tried to break up an incident. Police are reporting that there is growing "handgun culture" amongst young men who think it's cool to carry around a gun. We're not talking about criminals or gang members, but just young men with too much testosterone and not enough brains.

If people want to have rifles and go out hunting for sport or food, that's their business, but there is no need for handguns in our society.

metallicat · 12-08-2005, 05:05 PM

325 million for cops across the country? That is PEANUTS. Do they realize how large the budget is for individual municipal police services, let alone the RCMP as a whole? The Liberals are ****ing stupid. I don't know how to express my anger with them anymore.

Resolute 14 · 12-08-2005, 05:16 PM

Mike - And how many of those handguns are currently legal?

Like I said, it is a worthless gesture. The Liberals are promising to ban something that is already virtually banned.

Most of those kids, and most criminals arent going to wake up one morning and go "Oh crap! The Liberals band handguns again! I better throw mine away!!"

Superfraggle · 12-08-2005, 05:24 PM

All the objections here seem to come from the "it won't help" camp. I haven't read a single reason yet that this is a bad thing. Making them illegal altogether doesn't cost anything to my knowledge. Other parts of the promise, like more funding for RCMP do, of course, but I'm on board with that.

As an election promise...sure it isn't going to have any impact on my vote. As a law...I don't see any reason why not.

Shawnski · 12-08-2005, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superfraggle

All the objections here seem to come from the "it won't help" camp. I haven't read a single reason yet that this is a bad thing.

If you can offer proof that it WILL help, I am all ears.

I have still yet to hear any stats on the two questions I posed above.

metallicat · 12-08-2005, 06:06 PM

It's a bad idea because it is more gun control that will sap our pocketbooks. Gun control doesn't work. It just costs money.

Agamemnon · 12-08-2005, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnski

If you can offer proof that it WILL help, I am all ears.

I have still yet to hear any stats on the two questions I posed above.

I can't offer proof... but by your logic, if the government issued free handguns to every single Canadian, violence would not increase because there is no proof to back that up.

?

Shawnski · 12-08-2005, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

I can't offer proof... but by your logic, if the government issued free handguns to every single Canadian, violence would not increase because there is no proof to back that up.

?

OMFG... talk about being "dumb as a post". Your "post" has no merit whatsoever. How in the name of Phaneuf do you equate the issue of the inability to remove illegal handguns to issuing free handguns?

HOZ · 12-08-2005, 06:44 PM

[quote=Superfraggle]All the objections here seem to come from the "it won't help" camp. I haven't read a single reason yet that this is a bad thing. Making them illegal altogether doesn't cost anything to my knowledge. quote]

Hey the Liberals said the gun registry would pay for itself....

So this will not cost a thing.....sure....yep....

It won't help means it is a waste of time....ie. Why do in if it has no positive impact. Might as well come out and say we are banning all criminals! If we did that would you see a cessation of all crime?

Agamemnon · 12-08-2005, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnski

OMFG... talk about being "dumb as a post". Your "post" has no merit whatsoever. How in the name of Phaneuf do you equate the issue of the inability to remove illegal handguns to issuing free handguns?

Well, getting past your assinine offensiveness, quite simply, you've stated that making handguns illegal is useless, as there is no evidence to support the fact that it would actually reduce crime.

I'm simply saying the same thing. There is an equal lack of evidence to support the fact that giving every Canadian a handgun would increase crime.

No? If you disagree with that, please show me evidence/facts dictating that a massive increase in handguns would correspond with an increase in crime.

There isn't any. That's why you saying 'there's no proof this would help' is correct. There isn't. Either way.

Whoops, also, you're a dink.

Resolute 14 · 12-08-2005, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

No? If you disagree with that, please show me evidence/facts dictating that a massive increase in handguns would correspond with an increase in crime.

I dont suppose you could compare the gun crime rates in the US vs that of Canada against the number of guns (particularaly handguns) available, and the differences of "gun-culture" between the two nations to support Shawnski's position, could you?

Shawnski · 12-08-2005, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Well, getting past your assinine offensiveness, quite simply, you've stated that making handguns illegal is useless, as there is no evidence to support the fact that it would actually reduce crime.

Verbatim, I asked...

Quote:

Question... how many handguns have been found to be the cause of death AND have also been identified with the "gun registry" program since its inception? What percentage does this number related to overall gun related homicides?

Are those NOT valid questions?

As for the assinine offensiveness, thank you, you are welcome.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

I'm simply saying the same thing. There is an equal lack of evidence to support the fact that giving every Canadian a handgun would increase crime

Hi Simpleton. Nice to meet you. But "if the government issued free handguns to every single Canadian" is putting tens of millions of guns into the marketplace that are not there now. THAT would no doubt lead to an increase in gun related offenses, would you not think? Even at a 0.001% "crime" rate? Wow, talk about distorting the facts. NICE TRY!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

No? If you disagree with that, please show me evidence/facts dictating that a massive increase in handguns would correspond with an increase in crime.

The absolute MAGNITUDE of your foolish proposition, which would increase the amount of guns in the country a thousand fold at least, would lead to increased disposals that would inevitably lead to a huge increase in the guns on the street. Adding a federally instituted program of gun increase, to the illegal imports of guns is a no win situation. How hard is THAT to understand?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

There isn't any. That's why you saying 'there's no proof this would help' is correct. There isn't. Either way.

Don't be a duffus. Look at the statements above. You are smarter than that, but you are clearly not showing it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Whoops, also, you're a dink.

First thing that you have said in your post that might be true.