I guess very temporarily. Yamamoto looked decidedly average last year, after coming back down to earth from an historically high shooting percentage the season before. So, if he somehow manages to replicate his unsustainable offensive output from a three month sample size in 2020, he is going to be due for a massive raise right away. If he plays more like what we should expect him to, then this deal is right in the ballpark of market value.
The way I see it: the Oilers are either getting market value on a middle-six player, or they are setting themselves up for a massive overpay on the basis of an unsustainable performance. I am fine with either outcome.
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Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls
Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
That's way too reasonable. Are we sure this is legit? It's not $11.75?
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Originally Posted by snipetype
k im just not going to respond to your #### anymore because i have better things to do like #### my model girlfriend rather then try to convince people like you of commonly held hockey knowledge.
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I guess very temporarily. Yamamoto looked decidedly average last year, after coming back down to earth from an historically high shooting percentage the season before. So, if he somehow manages to replicate his unsustainable offensive output from a three month sample size in 2020, he is going to be due for a massive raise right away. If he plays more like what we should expect him to, then this deal is right in the ballpark of market value.
The way I see it: the Oilers are either getting market value on a middle-six player, or they are setting themselves up for a massive overpay on the basis of an unsustainable performance. I am fine with either outcome.
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Dube is 3 months older than Yamamoto and nominally bigger. In his 121 game sample he put up 18 goals and 43 pts and +1 Dube's numbers should be easier to sustain as they really trail Yamamoto's 20 goals 52 pts +20 in 105 games
Maybe because the Flames had cap space to burn Dube got a 3 x 2.3 M
If he was market value of 1.175 for 1 year the Flames paid him 5.725 over years 2 and 3 of his deal. 2.86 x 2
The more the Flames hand out multi-year deals to players coming off ELCs, the deeper the hole they are risking of digging themselves into.
From a distance the Oilers have a better value on their contract than the Flames have with Dube.
Dube is 3 months older than Yamamoto and nominally bigger. In his 121 game sample he put up 18 goals and 43 pts and +1 Dube's numbers should be easier to sustain as they really trail Yamamoto's 20 goals 52 pts +20 in 105 games
Maybe because the Flames had cap space to burn Dube got a 3 x 2.3 M
If he was market value of 1.175 for 1 year the Flames paid him 5.725 over years 2 and 3 of his deal. 2.86 x 2
The more the Flames hand out multi-year deals to players coming off ELCs, the deeper the hole they are risking of digging themselves into.
From a distance the Oilers have a better value on their contract than the Flames have with Dube.
Who is going to have a better 2021-22?
I posted this in another thread but it addresses your post. Also, Dube is 30 lbs heavier than Yamaoto - that is not 'nominally bigger'.
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He was fortunate enough to be on the 3rd wheel on a hot line for a while, where he had 20 points in 17 games.
Other than that, he has 32 points in 88 games (.36 PPG). Playing mostly with Draisaitl.
He is 5'8", 153 lbs.
Dube is a much more complete player. And if you switched them and put Dube with Drasaitl for the last 2 seasons, and upped his ice-time to almost 17 minutes a game, and put Yamamoto on the Flames 3rd line, and dropped his ice-time to 13 minutes, what do you think their production would look like?
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^
My guess is he wanted Dube type term and Oilers didn't want it any part of that and or the player wants out of that tire fire asap, so will take this as last resort.
I'll take Dube all day. Wjhc Team Canada captain as a pedigree vs decent player hyped up by the Oilers media machine.
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Dube is 3 months older than Yamamoto and nominally bigger. In his 121 game sample he put up 18 goals and 43 pts and +1 Dube's numbers should be easier to sustain as they really trail Yamamoto's 20 goals 52 pts +20 in 105 games
Maybe because the Flames had cap space to burn Dube got a 3 x 2.3 M
If he was market value of 1.175 for 1 year the Flames paid him 5.725 over years 2 and 3 of his deal. 2.86 x 2
The more the Flames hand out multi-year deals to players coming off ELCs, the deeper the hole they are risking of digging themselves into.
From a distance the Oilers have a better value on their contract than the Flames have with Dube.
Who is going to have a better 2021-22?
To be honest, Dube seems to be on the verge of a breakout, as long as he works on the consistency in his game. There is so much to like, and I think it's a safe bet that Dube can become a $3M player in years 2-3. He has the speed, he has the shot, he can make plays, and he is decent forechecking with speed. He can get a bit lost in the defensive zone, and be inconsistent on the forecheck. I guess I'm just really high on Dube, as he seems like an a lot more dynamic player than say Bouma(who got a similar contract from CGY), and a much safer gamble.
I would also gamble on Dube taking a bigger step than Yamamoto this year. I don't know if Yamamoto will get more points, as others have mentioned it largely depends on opportunity, but I expect Dube to be the better hockey player this season.
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Dube also needs to grasp the fact that working hard HAS to HAS to HAS to continue in all 3 zones and 200 FT if he's going to play .
Hell sit a few times this year as Sutter used the word entitled when describing him on occasion.
He's got a great motor, all the tools in the toolbox , proper pedigree to get it all done but that means he has to never take off a shift.
And whoever was comparing these 2 players is delusional.
God the oilers are gonna come back to earth this year.
Watch the implosion ...its gonna be glorious when neither goalie makes them the big saves when they need them and they have to take down all the parade decorations they've set up.
They can still hand out participation ribbons to keep morale high......ahhh Holland and Tippet you guys are SO awesome.
I posted this in another thread but it addresses your post. Also, Dube is 30 lbs heavier than Yamaoto - that is not 'nominally bigger'.
Good presentation of facts. Will Dube move up onto the Flames top 6?
Monahan, Gaudreau, Lindholm, Mangiapane, Tkachuk, Backlund and now Coleman?
Who's top-6 time will he replace? How does he get even keep his 13 minutes? He is going to be slotted in with Lucic and Maybe Pitlick in the 8-10th forward TOI
Over the last 2 years Dube spent about 25% of his ES time on a line with Lindholm and Tkachuk 261 Minutes as opposed to 728 w/o neither Tkachuk nor Lindholm.
They had 16 GF and 8 GA as a line.
Had Dube not been the filler on that line his numbers would not be even as good they were.
Good presentation of facts. Will Dube move up onto the Flames top 6?
Monahan, Gaudreau, Lindholm, Mangiapane, Tkachuk, Backlund and now Coleman?
Who's top-6 time will he replace? How does he get even keep his 13 minutes? He is going to be slotted in with Lucic and Maybe Pitlick in the 8-10th forward TOI
Over the last 2 years Dube spent about 25% of his ES time on a line with Lindholm and Tkachuk 261 Minutes as opposed to 728 w/o neither Tkachuk nor Lindholm.
They had 16 GF and 8 GA as a line.
Had Dube not been the filler on that line his numbers would not be even as good they were.
The fact that Dube can't crack the top 6 on the Flames is a function of the fact that the Flames actually have 7 good forwards (excluding him). That doesn't mean he isn't a good player.
Yamamoto was the 4th best forward on the Oilers, not because he is good, but because they are bad. Dube would have also been their 4th best forward last year.
Dube will likely play on the 3rd line with Backlund and Pitlick, at least that would be my guess.
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Dube is 3 months older than Yamamoto and nominally bigger. In his 121 game sample he put up 18 goals and 43 pts and +1 Dube's numbers should be easier to sustain as they really trail Yamamoto's 20 goals 52 pts +20 in 105 games
Maybe because the Flames had cap space to burn Dube got a 3 x 2.3 M
If he was market value of 1.175 for 1 year the Flames paid him 5.725 over years 2 and 3 of his deal. 2.86 x 2
The more the Flames hand out multi-year deals to players coming off ELCs, the deeper the hole they are risking of digging themselves into.
From a distance the Oilers have a better value on their contract than the Flames have with Dube.
Who is going to have a better 2021-22?
Really? one guy is playing with Drai or McDavid and the other is in a 3rd line role...as I said in the other thread its not fair just to compare points.
Also, should both players continue to progress Dube will be paid far less over 3 years.
Oilers have bad winger depth...(this is not a homer take) Yam would have trouble cracking the Flames at all unless you want a 150 pounder in a checking role he certainly wouldn't be top six without injury.
Really? one guy is playing with Drai or McDavid and the other is in a 3rd line role...as I said in the other thread its not fair just to compare points.
Also, should both players continue to progress Dube will be paid far less over 3 years.
Oilers have bad winger depth...(this is not a homer take) Yam would have trouble cracking the Flames at all unless you want a 150 pounder in a checking role he certainly wouldn't be top six without injury.
Yamamoto will not be defaulted a spot on the Oilers top-6 and neither would Dube
Hyman McD Puljavari
RNH, Dria and Foegele
Based on last year's 14 minutes a game for Foegele on a really good Carolina team .
Kailer Yamamoto signs 1 yr deal with Oilers for 1.175
