Adam Fox & the NCAA "Loophole?"

[Mayo]

Does anyone else get enraged more and more as they are seeing Adam Fox on the highlight reels more and more?

It's frustrating - I enjoyed watching Jimmy Vesey turn into a flop after screwing Nashville - it really sucks that this happened to us

Do you guys think there could be more high caliber young players watching what Fox has done and thinking they'd like to choose their destination as well? It seems that if more young players take that route, not only would it wear on the balance in the NHL, but it could be a talent suck on the CHL. Or perhaps I'm missing something.

My apologies if this has been discussed at length elsewhere

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by Mayo

Does anyone else get enraged more and more as they are seeing Adam Fox on the highlight reels more and more?

It's frustrating - I enjoyed watching Jimmy Vesey turn into a flop after screwing Nashville - it really sucks that this happened to us

Do you guys think there could be more high caliber young players watching what Fox has done and thinking they'd like to choose their destination as well? It seems that if more young players take that route, not only would it wear on the balance in the NHL, but it could be a talent suck on the CHL. Or perhaps I'm missing something.

My apologies if this has been discussed at length elsewhere

For sure. He’s 8th on Dom L’s Hart rankings for The Athletic. He would literally be Calgary’s best player, a young, right-handed defenceman to play alongside Hanifin or Valimaki.

[jg13]

someone mentioned in a different thread that if the team that drafts the NCAA player offers a max ELC that they should retain the players rights automatically. I think thats the right way to go.

This loophole needs to be closed.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Mayo

Does anyone else get enraged more and more as they are seeing Adam Fox on the highlight reels more and more?

It's frustrating - I enjoyed watching Jimmy Vesey turn into a flop after screwing Nashville - it really sucks that this happened to us

Do you guys think there could be more high caliber young players watching what Fox has done and thinking they'd like to choose their destination as well? It seems that if more young players take that route, not only would it wear on the balance in the NHL, but it could be a talent suck on the CHL. Or perhaps I'm missing something.

My apologies if this has been discussed at length elsewhere

I don't know if I would say enraged, but it's definitely crappy. Any time you draft a player from the U.S. university or college system, it's a known risk though. Unless you are willing to sign them early and burn a year or push them to go pro before they are ready, there is a pretty big incentive to just wait it out and become a free agent. It's one of the reasons drafting high this year isn't that appealing. A lot of the top prospects are from that system but won't be ready to go pro for a few years.

I can't help but think this is why the Flames signed Kuznetsov already.

[FiveSeven]

Honestly, it pisses me off more than it should.

[Nelson]

It’s so funny that the best Flames draft pick of the past decade refused to play for the team. I mean, the Flames couldn’t trade for Adam Fox if he was willing to play for the team now. He has a higher PPG than any Flames forward, and he’s a 23 year old RHD. I have to laugh to keep from crying.

[dino7c]

Needs to be changed...they go to all the trouble and miss two seasons for a hard cap and then allow the Rangers to steal players like this.

One thing though without the loophole he likely goes higher in the draft and the Flames don't even get him. I think it was a "concern" at the time

Christ Calgary could have lost Gaudreau

[atb]

I absolutely hate the system. With how important it is building through the draft, losing a home run like Fox is brutal. For as much as the NHL does helping smaller market teams compete with larger markets through the cap, this is an area they don't have it right.

[Nelson]

Too bad Brayden Point couldn’t demand to play for the Flames...

[GioforPM]

I wonder if Fox kinda misled the Flames in interviews predraft. I can easily imagine at that point him saying “of course I’d love to play there” so as not to blow an interview.

I suppose he may not have interviewed since he was well down the list.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Is it really a loop hole? A junior player could not sign, re-enter the draft, and not re-sign again and become a free agent. Same 4 year time table.
The difference perhaps is a college player has more reason to complete their 4 years and become a free agent.

[simonsays]

I think that at the very least there should be an extra year between graduation and free agency. Let them play in the AHL or KHL if they're determined to not sign with the team that drafted them. That way there is at least a small monetary penalty for going FA right out of college.



Otherwise teams that draft NCAA players are left in limbo.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Is it really a loop hole? A junior player could not sign, re-enter the draft, and not re-sign again and become a free agent. Same 4 year time table.
The difference perhaps is a college player has more reason to complete their 4 years and become a free agent.

The big difference is that a Junior guy potentially leaves himself in a position where he really has nowhere to play for a year, maybe 2 depending on if he's drafted as a 2nd or 3rd year Junior player. They'd have to sign a ECHL or find an unaffiliated pro team to sign a deal with, or go play in Europe for a year or two. The NCAA guys finish out their college career and can turn pro.

For me if the players couldn't sign with a NHL team until the season after leaving school, than the Fox's of the world might need to sign with the team that drafted them.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

The big difference is that a Junior guy potentially leaves himself in a position where he really has nowhere to play for a year, maybe 2 depending on if he's drafted as a 2nd or 3rd year Junior player. They'd have to sign a ECHL or find an unaffiliated pro team to sign a deal with, or go play in Europe for a year or two. The NCAA guys finish out their college career and can turn pro.

For me if the players couldn't sign with a NHL team until the season after leaving school, than the Fox's of the world might need to sign with the team that drafted them.

They should move the draft back one year. That would solve the problem. I was really hoping they would make this move with a cancelled COVID season.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

The big difference is that a Junior guy potentially leaves himself in a position where he really has nowhere to play for a year, maybe 2 depending on if he's drafted as a 2nd or 3rd year Junior player. They'd have to sign a ECHL or find an unaffiliated pro team to sign a deal with, or go play in Europe for a year or two. The NCAA guys finish out their college career and can turn pro.

For me if the players couldn't sign with a NHL team until the season after leaving school, than the Fox's of the world might need to sign with the team that drafted them.

Further to your point, a junior player can easily be enticed to sign a contract sooner, get a nice signing bonus, and then be assigned back to junior. No risk for them and their living situation stays the same. A university player has to go pro as soon as they sign. There is a chance they were drafted by a junior team and could play there if they aren't NHL ready, but not a guarantee. Plus, if there are already going the university route, they obviously didn't want to play in junior.

Most of the time the "loophole" applies to late bloomers that already invested a lot of time in school and are close enough to free agency that it's worth the wait. With these types, the NHL team has to decide whether to let them develop or sign them sooner, burn a year, and potentially derail their progress.

I am curious though... Why is it junior players have to re-enter the draft but not university players? I am sure there is a good reason, but nothing is jumping out at me.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Needs to be changed...they go to all the trouble and miss two seasons for a hard cap and then allow the Rangers to steal players like this.

That, and NMCs/NTCs. The league is way too liberal with those. They should have adopted something closer to the NBA system.

Originally Posted by simonsays

I think that at the very least there should be an extra year between graduation and free agency. Let them play in the AHL or KHL if they're determined to not sign with the team that drafted them. That way there is at least a small monetary penalty for going FA right out of college.



Otherwise teams that draft NCAA players are left in limbo.

Or have another class of free agents. The NHL implements a Group II free agency for younger players already signed to the NHL to deter other teams from poaching them. They could do something like that. The player would technically be a free agent, but the team signing them would have to give compensation. Assuming of course that the player was offered the max level ELC and turned it down. Would the Rangers still sign him if they had to give up a 1st round pick... yeah, maybe, but at least the other team isn't screwed.

[DeluxeMoustache]

The response to this post may vary depending on how Lindholm and Hanifin are doing, compared to Fox, Ferland and Hamilton

It’s obviously a bad time to perceive the outcome of that trade well at the immediate moment

Have to wonder what level of due diligence Tre did on this. Obviously the player is unproven so the team has leverage but the risk can be personal and needs to be properly assessed

[getbak]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I am curious though... Why is it junior players have to re-enter the draft but not university players? I am sure there is a good reason, but nothing is jumping out at me.

I think it's just a timing issue. If a junior player isn't signed after 2 years (either by his choice or the team's), he'll re-enter the draft. If he is drafted a second time and still fails to sign after another 2 years, he'll be a UFA. So, it's the same 4 year wait to become a UFA whether the player is coming from junior, college, or Europe. The junior player just has the potential 2 year escape clause.

For many college players, they're not ready to turn pro 2 years after their draft and they'll lose their NCAA eligibility if they sign a contract. That means drafting anyone but a sure-thing who will immediately turn pro would be a wasted pick if you would lose his rights after 2 years.

For example, there's no way Gaudreau would have been drafted by anyone in 2011 if the drafting team would have lost his rights if he wasn't signed by 2013. After his freshman year, he likely would have been drafted high in 2012 by a team hoping to convince him to sign after one or two more years at college.

[Sandman]

Fox was taken by the Flames at Jim Cummins' insistence. He supposedly "dug his heels in"and basically demanded they not leave the draft without Fox. Just shows how many question marks there were about him, despite his eye-popping offensive numbers.

[Huntingwhale]

I've always hated that loophole. Stings even more that Fox would look stellar on the team right now, but at the same time there's also something to be said for a guy who obviously wanted to sign on a specific team and used that loophole to make it happen. Fox was dead set on going to NY and he found a way to make it happen. Honestly I don't fault any person who finds a way to make their career aspirations come true.

For all we know Fox would have pouted and sulked his entire tenure here and would never have blossomed into the player he is now. Fact is, the Rangers were his destination of choice, and like any other job, you perform best when it's a company you get to choose to work for rather than settling for the default.

It's not just the Flames that got hosed but the 'Canes as well. BT did well to get value for him while he still could.