2021: Vatican Calls Homosexuality a "Sin"

[Sliver]

A fataing sin. How hateful.

I realize Catholicism/Christianity is hateful already - that they believe non-Christians are going to burn in an eternal hell is abhorrent - but this is a more targeted hate versus their typical shot-gun approach to hate.

We all know gay people. At this point in 2021 to view their mere existence a sin is an a-hole move of the highest order. I suppose it's not really the church calling it a sin, though, it's actually straight from God per their statement.

I encourage you to read the statement here. I think we can get a little numb to the absurdity of religious texts by virtue of their age, but reading something so preposterous in 2021, written in 2021, hit me hard today. Like, they quote God as though 1. he's real and 2. he weighed in on this issue. GFY. It's just so ridiculous.

According to the Catholic Church of which there are 1.3 billion members worldwide, if you're in a gay relationship you are not in a licit relationship because “there are absolutely no grounds for considering homosexual unions to be in any way similar or even remotely analogous to God’s plan for marriage and family.”

I don't know how people can follow this ####. Like, really, maybe you were cool with the church sheltering pedophiles for hundreds of years because you like their stories and cool architecture, but does this give you pause? At what point is the church a hate group? They are diminishing the lives of gay people by labeling their relationships as lesser-than. This will result in more discrimination against gay people. And to think there are Calgarians in this club. And schools preaching this crap. Imagine being a closeted 16-year-old gay student today how you'd feel walking into your Catholic school this morning...there should be outrage at this and people should be renouncing their faith.

Any Catholics want to weigh in on this? Do you actually give credence to the authority of these old virgins sitting in their palace? Do you think homosexuality is a sin? Do you really think your god views gay people as living sinful lives? I can't seem to put my brain in a spot where any of this thinking is reasonable. Would you look a gay couple in the eye and tell them they are sinners and in an illicit union in the eyes of god?

I like to be proud of the organizations in which I'm involved. If I were Catholic, today would be a very tough day. To release this statement is embarrassing and shameful.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I like to be proud of the organizations in which I'm involved. If I were Catholic, today would be a very tough day. To release this statement is embarrassing and shameful.

Today?

#### man they have been systematically hiding sexual abusers for centuries.

What makes today worse?

Garbage

[CaptainCrunch]

I thought they were passed this, I don't really follow the church though since I left it back in the early 90's and dropped organized religion from my life.



Maybe (here comes my Monday morning snark). They should come out and confirm that pedophilia is a sin.



I guess the church is trying to appeal to the fundamentalists who are the main ones that are filling the donation basket.

[81MC]

I agree with pretty much everything.

Except it’s not just Catholics. 70 nations view it as a crime, and you can face the death penalty in several countries, let alone the extrajudicial violence.

If you want to hate people for this stance, you gotta open up a much, much larger umbrella.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by 81MC

I agree with pretty much everything.

Except it’s not just Catholics. 70 nations view it as a crime, and you can face the death penalty in several countries, let alone the extrajudicial violence.

If you want to hate people for this stance, you gotta open up a much, much larger umbrella.

Agreed and key point, and we do business with a lot of those nations. I think the grossest thing about importing fuel is that we're putting money into the pockets of really gross regimes that we shouldn't be supporting.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I thought they were passed this, I don't really follow the church though since I left it back in the early 90's and dropped organized religion from my life.

Maybe (here comes my Monday morning snark). They should come out and confirm that pedophilia is a sin.

I guess the church is trying to appeal to the fundamentalists who are the main ones that are filling the donation basket.

That's what I thought, too. They sure clarified their position with this statement, though.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by 81MC

I agree with pretty much everything.

Except it’s not just Catholics. 70 nations view it as a crime, and you can face the death penalty in several countries, let alone the extrajudicial violence.

If you want to hate people for this stance, you gotta open up a much, much larger umbrella.

I'm just curious, how many of those nations have made those laws based on religious beliefs? Is it all of them? I'm guessing it's all of them. This deceleration just gives them justification, even if they are not Catholic. "Well if even the Pope says it's OK to discriminate..."

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I'm just curious, how many of those nations have made those laws based on religious beliefs? Is it all of them? I'm guessing it's all of them. This deceleration just gives them justification, even if they are not Catholic. "Well if even the Pope says it's OK to discriminate..."

Yes, and every single Calgarian diverting their taxes to the Catholic School Board and attending Catholic services is totally complicit in this discrimination. I think "god" would quickly find a way to bless homosexual unions if the congregation rose up on this.

[CaptainCrunch]

You're going to make me dive into that Rabbit hole Fuzz.


Map of nations that have outlawed homosexuality


https://www.humandignitytrust.org/lg...iminalisation/


I would say that a majority of the nations are Islamic heavy populations or even in theory a theocratic based government.


there are some nations that do have an anti homosexuality slant "Its a mental illness" "Undesirable and you can be persecuted" like China, Russia, North Korea etc.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

"[T]here are absolutely no grounds for considering homosexual unions to be in any way similar or even remotely analogous to God’s plan for marriage and family”

Shameful.

[The Yen Man]

How someone can in good conscience, continue to belong to an organization that announces this garbage to the world, while at the same time sweeping all the rampant pedophilia happening amongst them under the rug, is beyond me.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I thought they were passed this, I don't really follow the church though since I left it back in the early 90's and dropped organized religion from my life.

Nope. The current Pope has made some 'progressive' statements suggesting a relaxation of certain positions on the matter but, underneath, the position of the Church has never changed. Homosexuality = SIN

Which is one among many reasons why these outdated religious institutions can't die off quickly enough.

[blankall]

Honestly, at least they are being up front and honest with their stance now. That previous push they were making about homosexuality not being a sin...as long as you never act on it in any way, was pretty offensive. It was getting very tiresome listening to anti-gay advocates push their views as progressive and accepting. The argument that they were okay with homosexuality, but if a homosexual ever acted on their urges they would spend an eternity suffering, was anything but progressive or accepting.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

there are some nations that do have an anti homosexuality slant "Its a mental illness" "Undesirable and you can be persecuted" like China, Russia, North Korea etc.

I've always found it very strange that many of the hardcore communist nations are anti-gay. In the west we associate gay rights groups with the left wing. I guess, when places like China turned to communism, the world, generally, was anti-gay. They then became locked into the doctrines they had at the time.

[81MC]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

You're going to make me dive into that Rabbit hole Fuzz.


Map of nations that have outlawed homosexuality


https://www.humandignitytrust.org/lg...iminalisation/


I would say that a majority of the nations are Islamic heavy populations or even in theory a theocratic based government.


there are some nations that do have an anti homosexuality slant "Its a mental illness" "Undesirable and you can be persecuted" like China, Russia, North Korea etc.

Indeed, and that’s an important consideration. Russia doesn’t show on the map, but if you watch Welcome to Chechnya you’d have to wonder why not. I don’t know much about it, but I’m sure the Orthodox Church was critical of Francis prior stance on homosexuality.

This statement is like the religious version of a marketing ploy. Were staunchly conservative Catholics being drawn to orthodoxy or Protestantism when the Catholic Church initially lightened its stance?

And not that it lessens your plight - but to any LGBTQ+ identifying persons here. The better parts of society welcome and accept whatever persuasions you have. It’s abhorrent I’m 2021 we’re talking about being brutalized or marginalized because of your orientation, and none of it is right. I do not mean to downplay one level of intolerance because of another.

[habernac]

I thought Pope Jorje would change things, but it looks like the old guard won again. My old social studies teacher is gay and still supports the Catholic religion, must be difficult.

[nfotiu]

Completely agree with OP. I try to keep my anti-relious biases in check more than I used to, but this is just horrible and shameful.

[PepsiFree]

I mapped those countries against the dominant religion.

35/70 follow Islam
30/70 follow Christianity
5/70 follow Buddhism or Hinduism

So no, it isn't all of them, it isn't even half. But that said, when you see how Christianity is viewed vs Islam in the western world, you might assume Christianity would not be the dominant religious influence in 42% of some of the worst countries for gay people.

This is the issue I have. It's not uncommon for someone to trot out some appeal to emotion on the basis of "well you should dislike this religion, or hate that we're dealing with this country because of this religion" and it's almost always Islam. End of the day, Christianity can go #### itself too, in general.

I would say many religious people, Christian, Muslim, or otherwise, in Canada specifically and the west generally, are good people. Most of these people may be religious, but they can make their own decisions on how they feel about gay people (among hundreds of other things). I've met plenty of religious people who are fully supportive of the lives and rights of the LGBTQ+ community. And I believe in defending good people and the right for people to follow a religion that may also include a lot of people that hate or think lesser of LGBTQ+ people. Because we all have the power to make our own decisions and I fully respect the countless people who seek spiritful fulfillment while realizing the religion they choose to follow is not absolute.

This statement from the Vatican emboldens hateful people and continues to stop many of the "true believers" from opening their minds a little bit. For that, it is just one more embarrassing and disgusting thing from the Catholic church. But it doesn't change the many good people out there.

I agree with everything your said Sliver, except for one: I am not interested in hearing who here believes homosexuality is a sin or that same-sex unions should not be recognized. If you're one of those people, you're welcome to stay quiet and go #### yourself for all I care. But that's just me.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Completely agree with OP. I try to keep my anti-relious biases in check more than I used to, but this is just horrible and shameful.

I've been working on adopting a less accepting stance toward religion and religious people. I think they've been given a pass too long to support and promote hate and intolerance. Religious people need to be held accountable for the beliefs they promote and support.

You go to a club that teaches gay people are sinners and your god will make them burn in an eternal hell for all time? Wait, and I'll burn in hell for all time because I don't believe what you believe? Yeah, I don't think you're going to be a good fit in my life. Those are insane beliefs and you have to have something wrong with you to subscribe to them.

[CaptainCrunch]

Indeed, and that’s an important consideration. Russia doesn’t show on the map, but if you watch Welcome to Chechnya you’d have to wonder why not. I don’t know much about it, but I’m sure the Orthodox Church was critical of Francis prior stance on homosexuality.

Yeah, I didn't dive deep into Russia when I was looking it up, but like China it comes down to regionalism as well. In China while they said they decriminalized it, there are still courts that have upheld the ruling that homosexuality is at very least a serious mental illness. Cuba should still be on the map as there is still a lot of persecution and bigotry towards it.



China probably has laws against it because of reproductive issues. Russia because it has a streak of orthodoxy that rose again after the fall of Communism. North Korea because its North Korea. Its interesting that quite a few of the more first world Christian centric countries don't have a criminal stance, yet the vatican seems to still have it.


Its a sad state of affairs.