Theoren Fleury Deserves to be in the HHOF - Frank Seravalli

[SportsJunky]

The member selection committee meets on Wednesday to deliberate on the players that are eligible for induction. Fleury has been eligible for 12 years now.
https://www.tsn.ca/theoren-fleury-de...fame-1.1488299

Fleury, who turns 52 next week, is one of just 15 players in NHL history to average more than one point per game in both the regular season and the Stanley Cup playoffs. The other 14 are all enshrined in the Hall.

"Graham was on me once or twice a week for the next two years. An absolute nightmare, every single day of my life,” Fleury wrote in his book. “I worried constantly. What should I do? How do I get out of this situation? What if somebody finds out? Will I go to hell for this? So when I was 16 years old and I took that first sip of alcohol, it was like, snap – medicine. I was like ‘Oh, this is gooood stuff.’

“It’s not like I had a slow descent into alcoholism. I was an alcoholic as soon as I tried it. I had been weighed down by all the [bleep] that was happening to me, and suddenly none of it mattered. I was able to have fun. From that day on, drinking became something I could not live without, like oxygen or hockey."

I know he is very polarizing but I believe Theo deserves a spot in the HHOF.

[ComixZone]

Agreed.

Theo (and of course Jarome) should be inducted this year.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

I agree. There's been a handful of players inducted since he's been eligible that I would argue aren't as (or equally as) worthy as him.

Sergei Zubov
Martin St. Louis
Paul Kariya
Mark Howe

[looooob]

I like Seravalli's article and I agree his time has more or less come


I can't decide however if (for both parties) it would be the best or worst thing that could happen for Iginla and Fleury to go in at the same time

[getbak]

2020 HHOF Class: Iginla, Fleury, Vernon.

Make it happen, Lanny.

[Blaster86]

He was the best player in the NHL for chunks of the late 90s. If the goal of society is to stop demonizing people with addictions and to stop the stigma of mental health, Theo should not be punished for that, rather rewarded for his skill and achievements at the game of hockey.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by getbak

2020 HHOF Class: Iginla, Fleury, Vernon, Loob

Make it happen, Lanny.

fixed your post


only partly in jest- if international body of work is considered, I think Loob is in the conversation but it will take a while to figure out how to situate him compared to the historical cohort of players who essentially played only in Europe as opposed to splitting their time (and prime) in two places

[HighLifeMan]

By my count he had zero top five scoring finishes and zero personal awards.. not to mention he was not exactly a great ambassador for the game during his playing career... I don't see it.

Sure you could argue he is more deserving than some names previously inducted, but that doesn't mean a lick to me. He belongs in the hall of very good.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

By my count he had zero top five scoring finishes and zero personal awards.. not to mention he was not exactly a great ambassador for the game during his playing career... I don't see it.

Sure you could argue he is more deserving than some names previously inducted, but that doesn't mean a lick to me. He belongs in the hall of very good.

Given that we now know why he wasn't a good ambassador, shouldn't that be irrelevant - I'd almost argue that the fact that he was able to play at such a high level while battling with the damage of his abuse makes him more deserving of a spot, not less.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by VilleN

Given that we now know why he wasn't a good ambassador, shouldn't that be irrelevant - I'd almost argue that the fact that he was able to play at such a high level while battling with the damage of his abuse makes him more deserving of a spot, not less.

I can understand that viewpoint and it's a slippery slope to discuss as I do not wish to derail this thread or by any means overlook the struggles he had to overcome. Unfortunately some of his actions will always stick with him whether they be justified or not.

I personally just have an extremely high standard for what I deem to be hall of fame worthy. Based purely on his hockey accomplishments, I think he just misses the bar.

A valid argument can certainly be made for his inclusion based on previous inductees. No denying that.

[Mayo]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

By my count he had zero top five scoring finishes and zero personal awards.. not to mention he was not exactly a great ambassador for the game during his playing career... I don't see it.

Sure you could argue he is more deserving than some names previously inducted, but that doesn't mean a lick to me. He belongs in the hall of very good.

If you read Theo's book you get insight into what a rough time the Flames organization was going through. When you look at the Flames roster in the mid-late 90's, it's incredible Theo put up the points he did while also battling addiction.

The year Theo got traded to the Avalanche, he put up 1.15 ppg through 60 games with the Flames and then put up 1.6 ppg with the Avalanche while battling an injury. A glimpse of the player he could have been on a competitive team.

Theo absolutely deserves to be in the HHOF

[natsmt]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

I can understand that viewpoint and it's a slippery slope to discuss as I do not wish to derail this thread or by any means overlook the struggles he had to overcome. Unfortunately some of his actions will always stick with him whether they be justified or not.

I personally just have an extremely high standard for what I deem to be hall of fame worthy. Based purely on his hockey accomplishments, I think he just misses the bar.

A valid argument can certainly be made for his inclusion based on previous inductees. No denying that.

By that standard Lanny shouldn't be in, along with many others.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

He was the best player in the NHL for chunks of the late 90s. If the goal of society is to stop demonizing people with addictions and to stop the stigma of mental health, Theo should not be punished for that, rather rewarded for his skill and achievements at the game of hockey.

Fleury wasn't the best player in the NHL at any point in his career. He is in the same boat as Roenick, both of whom started at the same time, had their peak years in the early 90s and have their fair share of personal issues

Both should be in the hall of fame eventually though.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Fleury wasn't the best player in the NHL at any point in his career. He is in the same boat as Roenick, both of whom started at the same time, had their peak years in the early 90s and have their fair share of personal issues

Both should be in the hall of fame eventually though.

Bull####. In the late 90s and early 00s he was in the conversation for the best. If not for two seasons cut short by his issues, he would have been at or near the top in scoring and likely in the conversation for individual awards.

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

I personally just have an extremely high standard for what I deem to be hall of fame worthy. .

So to summarize for you:


Tl;Dr I think the world should be different than it is, but my opinion doesn't matter.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

I agree. There's been a handful of players inducted since he's been eligible that I would argue aren't as (or equally as) worthy as him.

Sergei Zubov
Martin St. Louis
Paul Kariya
Mark Howe

Not saying Fleury doesn't deserve to be in the Hall, but St. Louis is on another level because of some really impressive individual awards that Fleury just doesn't have.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Fleury wasn't the best player in the NHL at any point in his career. He is in the same boat as Roenick, both of whom started at the same time, had their peak years in the early 90s and have their fair share of personal issues

Both should be in the hall of fame eventually though.

Glenn Anderson is an interesting comparable too IMO. In the end somewhat similar scoring numbers (although Anderson overlapped a bit more of a higher scoring era). Anderson- of course- won many more cups, but never as the feature player on the team by any means



Anderson highest scoring finish I believe was 9th in league scoring, never a first or 2nd team allstar , and I don't believe ever received a vote (or at least significant votes) for an NHL award. (of course there are actually a lot of guys in the HOF who have similar CVs- I'm not meaning to throw Anderson specifically under the bus) but the similarities I think with Fleury is they are both guys that we saw alot of here in Alberta, both finished a little over 1000 points and a little under 500 goals, both had 'complicated' reputations


Fleury was twice top 5 in Hart trophy voting though.true he was never the best NHLer but at his peak I think its fair to say he was better than Anderson

[looooob]

Originally Posted by Mayo

If you read Theo's book you get insight into what a rough time the Flames organization was going through. When you look at the Flames roster in the mid-late 90's, it's incredible Theo put up the points he did while also battling addiction.

I think the Theo for the HOF argument is definitely complex- my mind has changed back and forth over the years, I am now more pro his induction than I would have been a few years ago. I just spoke for him in a few recent posts but I am going to temper that a little bit


I agree with you the back half of his Flames years he was on some putrid teams , there are however some folks (not saying you are one of them) that paint Theo's whole career as being on dud Flames teams , whereas I think I divide it in roughly half


after winning the cup then he was around for about 5 years where the team was still pretty stacked with great players and underachieved - I do view him as part of that- to his credit and other factors I guess, he was the one poor bloke that outlasted the rest so that by the rest he was the only person (while Jarome and others found the way) worth the price of admission for some years

[Bleeding Red]

Fleury is the most deserving player not yet in the HHOF.

He has the NHL stats:
- Lead an NHL team in scoring for 6 seasons
- 2 seasons of 100 pts.
- 7 all-star game appearances
- second team all-star in 93/94
- franchise point leader at time of trade
- Stanley Cup Champion

But, let's not forget that It's the Hockey Hall of Fame, not the NHL hall of fame. Individual NHL awards are fine, but Championships are what count.

Fleury was considered 1 of the 23 best Canadian hockey players by Hockey Canada for 5 best-on-best tournaments.
- Captain of gold medal Team Canada at World Juniors in 1988.
- Member of Canada Cup champion Team Canada in 1991
- Olympic gold medal in 2002

All while being the smallest guy out there. Gretzky himself insisted on having Fleury on his team in international competitions. That says a lot.

On top of that is the story of challenge, recovery, redemption, and sharing. Working through his addictions and experiences helping others - This is a story that the NHL and HHOF should be writing.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Bull####. In the late 90s and early 00s he was in the conversation for the best. If not for two seasons cut short by his issues, he would have been at or near the top in scoring and likely in the conversation for individual awards.





So to summarize for you:


Tl;Dr I think the world should be different than it is, but my opinion doesn't matter.

Basically, yes.. I do think the standards should be higher, but here we are. This is a forum after all where the sole intention is to voice one's opinion...

If Mullen, Federko, Andreychuk, Ciccarelli etc.. are hall of famers then Fleury has every right to be, and will be as well.

[Bleeding Red]

I wrote to selection committee members (who I could find an email for) a couple of years ago. Duha actually replied saying that he could not discuss the process or players in any way or he would be removed from the committee. Chickens!


I have heard the argument that Fleury was too much of a hothead or rubs people the wrong way, a bad ambassador for the game. A junk argument. Gilmour wasn't controversial (ask a St. Louis babysitter), Bobby Clarke wasn't a hothead (Ask Kharlamov about his broken ankle), Billy Smith was a good ambassador for the game?? (HOF for slashing!)


Fleury should be in the HHOF and they should be ashamed for keeping him out.