[Game Takes] Oilers 7 Flames 5

[Bingo]

Oilers 7 Flames 5

- Flames not ready
- Flames not good enough
- 3rd Period doesn't mask that.

[Brick]

Who's responsible for this team? GM? Coach?

There needs to be some accountability.

[Hey Connor, It's Mess]

Originally Posted by Brick

There needs to be some accountability.

How about the players?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Brick

Who's responsible for this team? GM? Coach?

There needs to be some accountability.

Everybody on this team.

[Brick]

Originally Posted by Hey Connor, It's Mess

How about the players?

Who decides what players make up the team?

Who deploys them?

Of course the players should be accountable but who makes them be?

This team is soft. Something needs to be done about it.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Hey Connor, It's Mess

How about the players?

Can't fire the players. They didn't like a disciplinarian coach like Hartley because he was hard on them but it seems like they have totally taken advantage of a players coach.

[Bingo]

Have they?

I don't see a team that has quit or taken advantage of a players coach. I see an inconsistent group that seems to have trouble getting themselves ready for games that are "big" (not in the standings but rivals, big crowds etc).

Gulutzan has to own part of that, but it comes down to everyone that plays as well.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Have they?

I don't see a team that has quit or taken advantage of a players coach. I see an inconsistent group that seems to have trouble getting themselves ready for games that are "big" (not in the standings but rivals, big crowds etc).

Gulutzan has to own part of that, but it comes down to everyone that plays as well.

and the leaders in the room need to start acting like it.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Have they?

I don't see a team that has quit or taken advantage of a players coach. I see an inconsistent group that seems to have trouble getting themselves ready for games that are "big" (not in the standings but rivals, big crowds etc).

Gulutzan has to own part of that, but it comes down to everyone that plays as well.

To me personally there was a telling sign from a Versteeg interview the night before game two of the season when he said something along the lines of "I don't think the players realize how good they have it under Glenn as they could never get away with this stuff under other coaches". Yes he said that and it's pretty obvious this team has way too much rope and need some tough love. A lot of people don't like Torts but he knows you can't let the inmates run the asylum and he's firm but fair and this is the kind of coach this team needs. One that's going to put a put a guy like Brodie or Hamilton on the spot when they play poorly and a guy that's going to weed out the individuals (Johansen). I personally don't think there's many if any selfish players on this team but it's pretty clear that whatever Gulutzan is preaching to them is not being taken to heart.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

To me personally there was a telling sign from a Versteeg interview the night before game two of the season when he said something along the lines of "I don't think the players realize how good they have it under Glenn as they could never get away with this stuff under other coaches". Yes he said that and it's pretty obvious this team has way too much rope and need some tough love. A lot of people don't like Torts but he knows you can't let the inmates run the asylum and he's firm but fair and this is the kind of coach this team needs. One that's going to put a put a guy like Brodie or Hamilton on the spot when they play poorly and a guy that's going to weed out the individuals (Johansen). I personally don't think there's many if any selfish players on this team but it's pretty clear that whatever Gulutzan is preaching to them is not being taken to heart.

Don't think I saw that tweet, that's interesting.

But your summary is where I always throw my hands up in the air ... pretty clear? Nothing is clear from the outside. We are all guessing.

[transplant99]

Yeah Im in the same boat. You want to blame Gulutzan and jettison him out of town, I can understand that.

you know what's left behind in that situation?

The same group of players who compromise the softest team I have ever seen collectively wear the Flames jersey.

Not sure there is a coach alive that can change that. The leadership group on this club, including the coaching staff, are far far to accepting of mediocrity and missteps. There is never any accountability for the players...and I look at Sam Bennett as the prime example. He should have been benched at some point over a month ago. But they kept giving him lots of time. It should happen with Brodie in spades, but he is out there when the game is on the line and causes yet another brutal play.

This team looks really comfortable no matter what is happening and that speaks to a mind set that losing is just as OK as winning. Really hard to watch.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Part of what turned around the Flames in the early 2000s was bringing in guys like Yelle and Reinprecht.
It feels like they need that type of leadership injection.
I think the make-up of the group is off. I would be looking at a deal that changes that make-up within the core. But as Friedman says, at this time of year, other GMs are really only interested in tossing you an anchor.
And yes before someone says it - indeed part of what also turned around that team was bringing in the right coach. But overall this group seems to lack urgency and push.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Don't think I saw that tweet, that's interesting.

It was an audio interview on the Fan 960 on the Flames vs Canucks pregame show.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

and the leaders in the room need to start acting like it.

Maybe they are? There were many people calling Giordano the best captain in team history and responsible for a total culture shift on the team, from country club to hard working and never say die.

Treliving has tried to bring in so called character and glue guys. Hard to see an impact.

Maybe the mix is wrong.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by transplant99

The leadership group on this club, including the coaching staff, are far far to accepting of mediocrity and missteps. There is never any accountability for the players...

You hang around this board long enough and patterns emerge...

For a core of posters, the Flames struggle at the end of the Iginla era was not Brent Sutter and his coaching to blame, but lack of leadership, with the leadership of Iginla (previously one of the best captains in the league) and his Club-Med attitude (that wasn't the actual term thrown around, but the one used escapes me), undermining Brent's system. The Flames turn it around under Hartley, and it's chalked up to Giordano's superior leadership ("He was always Brent's true leader, and moving Iginla opened up the room to his influence"). With the Flames struggling again, it's now Giordano's lack of leadership that is undermining things...

Just as it's always the coach for some, for others, it always the players just not caring and trying hard enough.

[kevman]

I rarely think it's not trying or caring. You don't become one of the best in the world by accident. These guys are winners if some people like to admit it or not.

I think it's simply a competitive league with 31 teams. It's hard to be perfect. If you're not first, you're last. Most fans are last. Hell, even this years eventual champ will have pitchfork wielding fans at some point this season.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

Part of what turned around the Flames in the early 2000s was bringing in guys like Yelle and Reinprecht.
It feels like they need that type of leadership injection.
I think the make-up of the group is off. I would be looking at a deal that changes that make-up within the core. But as Friedman says, at this time of year, other GMs are really only interested in tossing you an anchor.
And yes before someone says it - indeed part of what also turned around that team was bringing in the right coach. But overall this group seems to lack urgency and push.

Isn’t that exactly what the Brouwer signing was? I’m nervous if the Flames start trading talent for leadership right now.

If that truly is the problem then maybe a coaching change really is warranted.

[SeanCharles]

I feel what this team could really use is a 4th line that can stir up emotion, throw the other team off their game and gain momentum with a good shift. We need a 4th line that can be hard on the forecheck, use speed and tenacity as well as have the ability to frustrate their opponents with hard hits and relentless puck pursuit.

I like Versteeg but his injury has opened the door to build a 4th line with an identity. Having a PP specialist and a washed up gritty winger flank one of the barely NHL level centres we have rotated in that spot has not provided anything of use to the team.

The 4th line isn't expected to score on a regular basis but considering none of them provide much in the way of speed, grit and tenacity (outside of maybe Lazar) the zero goals from Stajan, Brouwer, F. Hamilton and Lazar doesn't benefit the team in the least.

I know it can't happen this year but the lineup below is more of a guideline for what I feel we need:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland
Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik
Bennett-Jankowski-Jagr
Lomberg-Dube-Hathaway
Lazar

I know there are still some bigger issues to work out like improving our overall team defence, improving the special teams and getting more consistent but I feel changing up the 4th line to be more gritty, hard working and difficult to play against will be a move in the right direction. When the team seems to be starting out flat the coach can up the 4th lines icetime which can generate some emotion and energy into the game.

I'm done with having a bunch of players, make up our 4th line, that are not good enough for top 9 responsibilities and not gritty or hard hitting and don't possess a relentless hunger for the puck.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

I feel what this team could really use is a 4th line that can stir up emotion, throw the other team off their game and gain momentum with a good shift. We need a 4th line that can be hard on the forecheck, use speed and tenacity as well as have the ability to frustrate their opponents with hard hits and relentless puck pursuit.

I like Versteeg but his injury has opened the door to build a 4th line with an identity. Having a PP specialist and a washed up gritty winger flank one of the barely NHL level centres we have rotated in that spot has not provided anything of use to the team.

The 4th line isn't expected to score on a regular basis but considering none of them provide much in the way of speed, grit and tenacity (outside of maybe Lazar) the zero goals from Stajan, Brouwer, F. Hamilton and Lazar doesn't benefit the team in the least.

I know it can't happen this year but the lineup below is more of a guideline for what I feel we need:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland
Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik
Bennett-Jankowski-Jagr
Lomberg-Dube-Hathaway
Lazar

I know there are still some bigger issues to work out like improving our overall team defence, improving the special teams and getting more consistent but I feel changing up the 4th line to be more gritty, hard working and difficult to play against will be a move in the right direction. When the team seems to be starting out flat the coach can up the 4th lines icetime which can generate some emotion and energy into the game.

I'm done with having a bunch of players, make up our 4th line, that are not good enough for top 9 responsibilities and not gritty or hard hitting and don't possess a relentless hunger for the puck.

I agree. I think the primary purpose of a 4th line should be energy. They should be hitting everything in sight and skating hard all the time. Goals are a bonus.

But I believe the coaching staff prefers a 4th line that will play well positionally.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I agree. I think the primary purpose of a 4th line should be energy. They should be hitting everything in sight and skating hard all the time. Goals are a bonus.

But I believe the coaching staff prefers a 4th line that will play well positionally.

I think the coaching staff is between a rock and a hard place because they have options without speed or any touch at all.

When you have Brouwer, Stajan and to a lesser extent Versteeg you lose the speed battle on most nights. If they were wily they'd be fine, but the scoring touch has gone off a cliff leaving players that aren't good defensively, no longer able to get by with speed and chipping in on the scoresheet.

That's why I think Brouwer may get bought out this summer.