Here they come after our money

[Resolute 14]

Give me all your money or Canada is doomed

Not surprisingly, this "Expert" is based out of Quebec (Sask born), and even less surprisingly, he agrees with Ontario that it gives too much.

But we dont give enough.

[Cowperson]

TORONTO - One of Canada's leading experts on equalization and interprovincial relations says Alberta will have to relinquish some of its windfall billions in oil revenue or risk the destruction of the federation.

Its going to destruct anyway so we might as well risk it.

The funny part was the comments on Saskatchewan . . . . I had no idea anyone was still left there.

Cowperson

[There is no G in MacInnis]

How very Canadian:

1) Someone in Quebec wanting more money

2) a greater concern with equality rather than prosperity

Alberta's increase in wealth helps the nation, not harms the nation. If Alberta was a dirt poor, have-not, province the country would be better off? We have freedom of mobility in this country; go west young man. He is upset when people want to move to Alberta for better working conditions. Would it be a better nation if our doctors and engineers contiued to move to the States instead.

[Devils'Advocate]

Funny that people are ROOTING for the destruction of our nation.

Anyhow, Ontario pays far more into Canada than it gets back. I don't think that is being disputed.

However, Ontario seems *WILLING* to pay into Canada, as we continue to vote for the Liberals (I don't... I voted for Ed), but Alberta always seems to be yelling "MINE! MINE! MINE! HANDS OFF! IT'S MINE!" Which is a very generous attitude I must say.

When I pay my taxes, I know I'm paying my taxes, plus topping up that being paid back in Nova Scotia. I know that the schools in Nova Scotia are getting money from my portion of the equalization payments. I know the hospitals in Newfoundland are getting some of my money. And you know something? I'm happy to do so. To me, it's not all "MINE MINE MINE! HANDS OFF!" My parents taught me about sharing when I was just 3.

[Cheese]

oh shuddup you western pukes...just because you have some good times now you think you dont have to share with the rest of us? Cmon get real...we're gonna take your oil and gas so we can have cheaper fuel out east too!

[Igottago]

Originally posted by Devils'Advocate@Sep 2 2005, 10:03 PM
Funny that people are ROOTING for the destruction of our nation.

Anyhow, Ontario pays far more into Canada than it gets back. I don't think that is being disputed.

However, Ontario seems *WILLING* to pay into Canada, as we continue to vote for the Liberals (I don't... I voted for Ed), but Alberta always seems to be yelling "MINE! MINE! MINE! HANDS OFF! IT'S MINE!" Which is a very generous attitude I must say.

When I pay my taxes, I know I'm paying my taxes, plus topping up that being paid back in Nova Scotia. I know that the schools in Nova Scotia are getting money from my portion of the equalization payments. I know the hospitals in Newfoundland are getting some of my money. And you know something? I'm happy to do so. To me, it's not all "MINE MINE MINE! HANDS OFF!" My parents taught me about sharing when I was just 3.

yeah, no kidding, I've never understood this attitude here...we LUCKILY have huge reserves of oil in this province, yet we act holier than thou like we're just so much smarter harder working than other Canadians...they're such scum for even asking for our assistance..we're in such bad shape in Alberta, those easterners are always fataing with us...what if the shoe was on the other foot?? what would we do then?? would we tell the feds to keep their equilization payments?? what about help alberta farmers needed during the mad cow crisis....

[JiriHrdina]

Originally posted by Devils'Advocate@Sep 2 2005, 04:03 PM
Funny that people are ROOTING for the destruction of our nation.

Anyhow, Ontario pays far more into Canada than it gets back. I don't think that is being disputed.

However, Ontario seems *WILLING* to pay into Canada, as we continue to vote for the Liberals (I don't... I voted for Ed), but Alberta always seems to be yelling "MINE! MINE! MINE! HANDS OFF! IT'S MINE!" Which is a very generous attitude I must say.

When I pay my taxes, I know I'm paying my taxes, plus topping up that being paid back in Nova Scotia. I know that the schools in Nova Scotia are getting money from my portion of the equalization payments. I know the hospitals in Newfoundland are getting some of my money. And you know something? I'm happy to do so. To me, it's not all "MINE MINE MINE! HANDS OFF!" My parents taught me about sharing when I was just 3.

Way too simplified view of things dude.

Albertans are heavily taxed. They work the longest work week on average in the nation. Finally, however we vote on a Federal scale matters squat. And you wonder why Albertans get upset when we are told we have to give back our wealth to a nation that we at times seem to have very little say in terms of the direction it takes.

Give us some election reform and then we can talk.

[There is no G in MacInnis]

1) Alberta pays more per capita than Ontario does.
&
2) Ontario is not so *Willing*. Listen to McGuinty, he has been constantly moaning about equalization payments since the Newfoundland made the deal with Ottawa so they could keep more of their offshore oil money.

[Hakan]

Our wealth? C'mon Jiri, we were lucky and hit the jackpot in the natural resources department. We were also equally lucky when the privy council consistently ruled against the Federal Government on constitutional matters pertaining to the ownership of natural resources.

Do Albertans not understand that we are all part of a bigger political unit? And that bigger political unit gave more than its share to Alberta when it was a backwoods poverty stricken have not province? Jesus, the greed and shallow self interest of most Albertans sickens me.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally posted by JiriHrdina@Sep 2 2005, 03:18 PM
Give us some election reform and then we can talk.

Woah!!! WOAH! WOAH!!!!!!!

(1) You believe that Alberta should have more power than it's population merits? So one Albertan vote is more important than a vote cast elsewhere in the nation?

(2) It would appear that you think you are deserving of more power on the basis of having more oil. Therefore MONEY should control the electoral process even more than it does now? Give power to haves while strip it from the have nots?

As for McGinty - to presume that what Ontarians agree on everything with McGinty would be a huge mistake. But, yes, there are some Ontarians that greedily would rather keep the wealth in the province and the have-not provinces be damned.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally posted by Hakan@Sep 2 2005, 04:30 PM
Our wealth? C'mon Jiri, we were lucky and hit the jackpot in the natural resources department. We were also equally lucky when the privy council consistently ruled against the Federal Government on constitutional matters pertaining to the ownership of natural resources.

Do Albertans not understand that we are all part of a bigger political unit? And that bigger political unit gave more than its share to Alberta when it was a backwoods poverty stricken have not province? Jesus, the greed and shallow self interest of most Albertans sickens me.

Fine. Then give us a proper voice in Federal politics. Tell me why we as Albertans should share the wealth when we have virtually NO SAY in the federal government that governs us?

[JiriHrdina]

Originally posted by Devils'Advocate+Sep 2 2005, 04:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Devils'Advocate @ Sep 2 2005, 04:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-JiriHrdina@Sep 2 2005, 03:18 PM
Give us some election reform and then we can talk.

Woah!!! WOAH! WOAH!!!!!!!

(1) You believe that Alberta should have more power than it's population merits? So one Albertan vote is more important than a vote cast elsewhere in the nation?

(2) It would appear that you think you are deserving of more power on the basis of having more oil. Therefore MONEY should control the electoral process even more than it does now? Give power to haves while strip it from the have nots?

As for McGinty - to presume that what Ontarians agree on everything with McGinty would be a huge mistake. But, yes, there are some Ontarians that greedily would rather keep the wealth in the province and the have-not provinces be damned. [/b][/quote]
1. To be honest I'm not sure what the right type of election re-form should be. There are far more intelligent posters on that subject than I. But I have a problem with the fact that my federal vote is useless. The East decides how governs in Ottawa. I have a problem with that.
2. No that's not what I'm saying at all. My point was about why Albertans feel they way they do.

[CaramonLS]

Originally posted by Devils'Advocate+Sep 2 2005, 10:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Devils'Advocate @ Sep 2 2005, 10:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-JiriHrdina@Sep 2 2005, 03:18 PM
Give us some election reform and then we can talk.

Woah!!! WOAH! WOAH!!!!!!!

(1) You believe that Alberta should have more power than it's population merits? So one Albertan vote is more important than a vote cast elsewhere in the nation?

(2) It would appear that you think you are deserving of more power on the basis of having more oil. Therefore MONEY should control the electoral process even more than it does now? Give power to haves while strip it from the have nots?

As for McGinty - to presume that what Ontarians agree on everything with McGinty would be a huge mistake. But, yes, there are some Ontarians that greedily would rather keep the wealth in the province and the have-not provinces be damned. [/b][/quote]
Maybe you don't understand what election reform means.

WE WANT A GOD DAMN REAL SENATE.

[Hakan]

What do you mean you have no say. How many people live in Alberta and how many MPs do we have? We have more than enough say. Unless say should be tried to how much money you pay, hmm that reminds me of Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, organized crime, Indonesia, Banana Republics.

Don't hold everyone hostage because a bunch of bigot Albertans can't elect their Free Dominion troglodytes at will.

Ugh...

[JiriHrdina]

Originally posted by Hakan@Sep 2 2005, 04:42 PM
What do you mean you have no say. How many people live in Alberta and how many MPs do we have? We have more than enough say. Unless say should be tried to how much money you pay, hmm that reminds me of Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, organized crime, Indonesia, Banana Republics.

Don't hold everyone hostage because a bunch of bigot Albertans can't elect their Free Dominion troglodytes at will.

Ugh...

Yeah let's start tossing around words like bigot. That'll help.

Again - the east decides who governs the nation federally. We have birtually no say in that department. I don't know what the right solution is but if you want to know why Albertans feel the way they do this is one big fat reason.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally posted by CaramonLS@Sep 2 2005, 03:42 PM
Maybe you don't understand what election reform means.

WE WANT A GOD DAMN REAL SENATE.

Well, I personally think the senate should be abolished... I think I said that in the GG thread. But let's say there is an elected senate. Don't you think that people in eastern Canada would vote in Liberal Senators just as they do Liberal MPs? We'd be in the exact same position. And the people of Alberta would be even madder than they are now. We'd even be paying MORE money for more elections, more turnover, and we'd have the same dynamic. Nicely done.

[Barnes]

Wow. there are people that have the same beliefs as me? While I'm not from here, I consider myself an Alberta boy from Montreal but I am Canadian first.

Some of the views that people share have me wondering what it means to them to be Canadian. Look at the Centenial celebration. We had the queen here. Big fataing deal. The provincial government missed the boat. I saw Georges Laraque on TV last night signing autographs at a centenial event and he said on national TV that he didn't even know that it was Alberta's 100th B-day until that morning. How embarassing. I didn't even know that there were celebrations until I heard about the road closures yesterday.

What happens when northern Alberta wants more of its money to stay in the communities up there and not move south to Calgary. Will they threaten to start a new province? We should be looking at making the Federation stronger. I moved out of a province that sees itself as more important then the federation and I see similairties here.
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Granny Blowjob

[arsenal]

Yes, we are lucky to sit on large reserves of natural resources.
We are also lucky to have a government that knows how balance a budget, that has allowed us to get out of debt, and become the most prosperous province in canada.

I would be happy to share Alberta's wealth with the rest of country IF:
1) The majority of it went to needy provinces
2) Was used to strengthen our military and navy
3) It skipped going into the Fed's "general revenue" account.
4) Was not used for frivoulous Liberal spending (Sponshorships or Gun Registry)

Alberta suffered through lean years to get where we are today. The price increases in oil and gas has helped out alot. But if you remember, the budget was going to balanced and the debt wiped out with oil being $25-30 / barrel.

I just don't trust the Feds to spend the money wisely.

Thats just my opinion anyway.

[Hakan]

Sorry about the bigot comment but it just seems that the people who contantly whine and moan about the elections are long suffering social/moral conservatives. They blame the electoral system for the losses not the fact that what the party stands for doesn't resonate with the rest of Canada. So instead of accepting that fact they start complaining about 'fixing' the electoral system so that they have undue say in the democratic process. Conservative governments have governed this country many times, maybe the problem isn't with the electoral system electing conservative parties but with the present machination of conservatism in Canada.

[Barnes]

Originally posted by Devils'Advocate+Sep 2 2005, 03:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Devils'Advocate @ Sep 2 2005, 03:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-CaramonLS@Sep 2 2005, 03:42 PM
Maybe you don't understand what election reform means.

WE WANT A GOD DAMN REAL SENATE.

Well, I personally think the senate should be abolished... I think I said that in the GG thread. But let's say there is an elected senate. Don't you think that people in eastern Canada would vote in Liberal Senators just as they do Liberal MPs? We'd be in the exact same position. And the people of Alberta would be even madder than they are now. We'd even be paying MORE money for more elections, more turnover, and we'd have the same dynamic. Nicely done. [/b][/quote]
The Senate is the most useless branch of government we have. Fine, go ahead and elect all the Senators. What people forget is the PM has the authority to override a Senate vote. Why does no one know that? Just get rid of it.
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