Dealing with death: Religion no 'cure-all' but 'tends to help'

[taco.vidal]

The thread about the tobogganing crash turned into a discussion of religion. CBC had an article today inspired by the crash.
CP has also had threads now and then about death of friends and family.
How do you cope?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...gion-1.3963997

But does a loving creator really make his will known through the violent deaths of teenagers? And do we actually ascend to heaven once we die, to be reunited with lost loved ones?

There are, of course, no definitive answers to these questions. Many simply don't believe in an afterlife. And religious perspectives vary.

But there's one thing leaders from different denominations do agree on: Faith helps us cope with trauma.

Fayaz Tilly is a Calgary imam who also works with the University of Calgary, Mount Royal University, Southern Alberta Institute of Technology and Alberta Health Services.

He said Islam equips followers to deal with tragedy, particularly with its view of the afterlife.

"Our faith obligates us to keep our eyes on the prize and the prize is the afterlife. In order to be rewarded in the afterlife, we are obligated to worship God and part of worshiping God is being in the servitude of his creation," said Tilly.

Imam Fayaz Tilly says Islam has many tools to deal with tragedy including a goal of the afterlife. (Fayaz Tilly/Facebook)

"One hundred and ten years from now, the majority of the people who are alive today won't be alive. The afterlife is a life of permanency. That doesn't mean that we don't enjoy the world that we are living in and we don't try to leave the world in a better place than how we received it in," he said.

In the Jewish faith, supporting others through grief goes beyond being a good friend and neighbour.

It's a "sacred obligation," said Rabbi Mark Glickman with Calgary's Temple B'nai Tikvah.

"The Jewish community has a way of turning out in support of people when things like this happen, and it's beautiful to see," he said.

"It's touching to see the way a community can galvanize."

That support helps equip the grieving to deal with their loss, Glickman said, but that doesn't mean it's a perfect way or the only way to confront death.
​

Bob Glasgow, who served as the non-denominational chaplain at Rockyview Hospital for 27 years and continues to work in private practice today, said there are three nearly universal types of needs people have when dealing with the death of a loved one.

Regardless of a person's religious faith, or lack thereof, he said there is almost always a yearning for relatedness and belonging, meaning and purpose, and forgiveness and reconciliation.

"I think the people that really struggle with finding their way through loss are people that develop such strong resentment ... or pretty intense guilt," he said.

Views have shifted over time, but Glasgow said there is evidence that belief in an afterlife — whether that means literal pearly gates or more abstract concepts of immortality — is beneficial for the bereaved.

"In early days in grief, people used to say, 'You've got to forget, you've got to move on,'" he said.

"But we know the people that do better in grieving are those that build a continuing bond with their deceased loved one. And, for a lot of people, the belief that their loved one's spirit lives on helps them build that continuing bond."

[Winsor_Pilates]

Isn't this obvious?
That's the main reason religion exists in the first place.

[jayswin]

My rule of thumb is to live and let live with people of faith. If it helps them in their lives and doesn't hurt anyone than I refuse to look down on them or think they're stupid or anything like that.

My acceptance ends however when religion is used to limit or harm the lives of others, which all to often it does.

[Flames_Gimp]

"Our faith obligates us to keep our eyes on the prize and the prize is the afterlife."

what a flawed way of thinking

[Flames_Gimp]

If death is the prize, i'm staying out of the game

[DuffMan]

How does the rapture fit into this?
And why don't Xtians self rapture if they think the afterlife is going to be so great?

[DuffMan]

I will drink with Odin in the afterlife.

[Flames_Gimp]

totally see how suicide bombers are created, raised with the belief that the afterlife is waiting. They're just getting their "prize" early

[Cecil Terwilliger]

nm

[Ozy_Flame]

Maybe religious was a way to placate the poor and middle classes thousands of years ago when people didn't live past 35. With a mortality rate like that, it's no wonder people needed religion to justify the swift ending to their lives. Illness, lawlessness, and general murderous behavior because you happen to step on your neighbors property with your left foot were pretty easy reasons to believe that god was waiting for you with grapes and a hot spa at the gates of St. Peter.

[DuffMan]

Don't forget death due to religious crusades or being hung as a witch.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

How does the rapture fit into this?
And why don't Xtians self rapture if they think the afterlife is going to be so great?

Suicide is not allowed for Christians, you are going to heaven if you kill yourself. It's why they try to impose their morality when it comes to doctor assisted suicide.

You can say live and let live all you like, but when your moralities(and lets be honest, it's a combination of how you have been indoctrinated through the church, and taking it as the word of god) now have an affect on all of us, then I have a problem. So the issue is that instead of all the voting public(and politicians) deciding policy based on their own merit, everything has to be measured against religious doctrine, to the degree that voters and politicians are bound by it. It's not so simple to say that church and state are separate when the values of the church are ingrained in the population.

[FireGilbert]

As an atheist I fear death as I believe this life is all we have and should make the most of it. That said there could be some scientific explanation for an "afterlife" such as an illusion caused by chemical reactions in the dying brain or even more out there that humans accidentally evolved a connection to an unknown dimension in the universe and our consciousness continues on in some form after we die. Or maybe this is it and things are just like they were before you were born... nothingness. As a living person this scares the crap out of me but I take some comfort that if I'm dead I won't care because there will be nothing.

My thoughts on religion are very similar to what is expressed in the musical "The Book of Mormon". It is basically that religions are made up stories that were created with the best of intentions and have done a lot of good, however these stories from the middle east 2,000 years ago (or in upstate NY 200 years ago) have zero relevance in today's modern society.

I also found Louis CKs views on the afterlife funny. I think he said something like God is a single father just trying to do the best he can with a bunch of bratty kids and when you die you go stay at your moms.

[psyang]

As a Christian, I'd like to first say that there isn't consensus on many issues within the whole of Christendom. The very essentials where there is unity is not all that big - the brokeness of this world, the person and Godhead of Jesus, His death and resurrection, and what that means for the redemption of this world. I suppose some churches may question even these tenets, but I'd say if a line has to be drawn, this would be it.

Beyond that, different segments of the church emphasize certain teachings over others. For instance, some will emphasize the afterlife and to not be "conformed to this world" because it is sinful and temporary. This can lead to the formation of communes, or very isolated sects. Others will emphasize the need to not only live in the world, but to bring goodness and blessing. You will see this in some very self-sacrificing Christians and Christian organizations who go into dark situations and try to redeem them.

I guess I say this just to clarify that on many issues (including same-sex marriage, abortion, and euthanasia), you might be surprised at the range of opinions and teachings within larger populations of the Christian church, and not just in fringe sects. Jesus himself said that all of the law comes from two commandments: To love God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and to love your neighbour as yourself.

As per the OP, I think Christianity can bring comfort when dealing with death. First, there is of course the hope of the afterlife, that when one dies, it is not the end, but rather the beginning of a fuller experience of God. Second, there is tremendous support from the church before a death (such as when one is terminal and in their last days), and afterwards towards the family of the bereaved. I can attest to this personally as I've just gone through this with the passing of my father-in-law last week.

I think this thread may become a general discussion of faith, and I hope all sides can contribute with respect. As for me, I hold no illusions about my faith - I often have doubts and questions, but I have found so far that my faith still holds. I have also been hurt by the church, and suffered because of the insensitivities of other Christians. But I like the words of one of my heroes, Richard Wurmbrand: "Man has denigrated the church, but the church has enobled man much more". I think I've become a far better person because of my faith, and not in spite of it.

[Dion]

Discussions like this never end well. Asking for civility and respectfulness is a pipe dream.

[taco.vidal]

Originally Posted by Dion

Discussions like this never end well. Asking for civility and respectfulness is a pipe dream.

Then how do you expect people to live together in Canada?

Is the reality that people pretend to be nice to one another and then with their true feelings, attack each other in the anonymity of the internet?

[Dion]

nm

[FireGilbert]

Originally Posted by taco.vidal

Then how do you expect people to live together in Canada?

Is the reality that people pretend to be nice to one another and then with their true feelings, attack each other in the anonymity of the internet?

What's the joke I hear occasionally? A Christian, Jew, Muslim and Atheist walk into a bar... and they have a great time together because they are not aholes.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

"Our faith obligates us to keep our eyes on the prize and the prize is the afterlife."

what a flawed way of thinking

It may be flawed, but it's innate and universal. There is no records of a human society that did not have some sort of belief in an afterlife. Like all such universals, it meets some kind of human need.

I'm an atheist, and I believe when our brain stops functioning we simply end. But there's no need to be contemptuous of the billions of people who have walked the planet who believe in an afterlife. If it helps them deal with death and suffering, who am I to judge? Everyone has irrational values and beliefs of some kind or other.

[Flames_Gimp]

I just don't understand that there are people walking around that think a man built a giant ship and filled with every animal, the logistics alone would be impossible in the present day let alone a couple thousand years ago.