Flames eye Tkachuk at Memorial Cup, make final preparations for combine

[sureLoss]

http://calgaryherald.com/sports/hock...or-nhl-combine

But their early scouting report, before and after the Knights performance at the Memorial Cup, on Tkachuk — a 6-foot-1, 195-pound versatile forward who is sitting sixth on the International Scouting Services top-30 rankings — is good.

Really good.

“His compete, he plays a hard game, he plays in the hard areas,” Button said. “He’s a finisher. A playmaker. I’ve seen him play centre this year. He’s a solid, solid all-around player. And he’s got skill. He’s not the prettiest skater and not the guy that’s going to get up and down the ice and look pretty doing it.

“But he’s going to get into the trenches.”

And surely the Flames are not alone in their evaluation of the 18-year-old son of 19-year league veteran Keith Tkachuk.

So, are they crossing their fingers that he’ll still be around at No. 6?

“I wouldn’t say that,” Button said. “We’ll put our guys in order and we’re going to go off that list. Assuming our evaluations are the same as the top-three teams. Then there’s the next six or seven guys. It’s not just Matthew (Tkachuk) … there’s other guys we’re looking at and that’s what we’re trying to do right now.

The Flames scouts — 13 of them in total — have gathered background information, made phone calls and talked to schools, coaches and general managers to develop an internal database on each player so they are well-armed when they head to next week’s combine, which goes from May 30 to June 4.

In total, they have 94 players on their list.

“Every guy on that board that is going to the combine, we’ll talk to,” Button said. “Everyone on our list, we’ll talk to at some point. We know what questions we want to ask them and we have information we can give to (strength and conditioning coach) Ryan VanAsten so he can watch kids at the combine. Things like his frame, how hard he works. Based on all the background work, we’ll come up with a list we can follow up on.”

[MarkGio]

Greg Nemisz and the 2009 Windsor spitfires. Thats what concerns me about the Flames and Tkachuk. Tkachuk is on the same line as Dvorak and Marner, both of whom are top 5 players in the OHL for two years in a row. It's hard to distinguish talent from beneficiary of talent. Half of Tkachuk's "playmaking" skills doesn't pan out with different line mates. Half his goals don't go in.


I would much prefer a purely skilled guy like Nylander, who's more certain based on the fact that his brother made the NHL and performed respectably, and Alex is the better of thr two.

Nylander also the last top righty available when the Flames pick

[btimbit]

Yeah the more I research the more I like Nylander. But because Tkachuk is likely gone by 6 anyway

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Greg Nemisz and the 2009 Windsor spitfires. Thats what concerns me about the Flames and Tkachuk. Tkachuk is on the same line as Dvorak and Marner, both of whom are top 5 players in the OHL for two years in a row. It's hard to distinguish talent from beneficiary of talent. Half of Tkachuk's "playmaking" skills doesn't pan out with different line mates. Half his goals don't go in.


I would much prefer a purely skilled guy like Nylander, who's more certain based on the fact that his brother made the NHL and performed respectably, and Alex is the better of thr two.

Nylander also the last top righty available when the Flames pick

I literally can't even.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

I literally can't even.

Figuratively.

[Point Blank]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Greg Nemisz and the 2009 Windsor spitfires. Thats what concerns me about the Flames and Tkachuk. Tkachuk is on the same line as Dvorak and Marner, both of whom are top 5 players in the OHL for two years in a row. It's hard to distinguish talent from beneficiary of talent. Half of Tkachuk's "playmaking" skills doesn't pan out with different line mates. Half his goals don't go in.


I would much prefer a purely skilled guy like Nylander, who's more certain based on the fact that his brother made the NHL and performed respectably, and Alex is the better of thr two.

Nylander also the last top righty available when the Flames pick

This has already been addressed in the 2016 draft thread. You may make the argument that he's more of a complimentary player than an offensive catalyst, but you can't compare him to Nemisz. Nemisz is a poor comparable because he wasn't touted as highly even with good stats. Scouts likely figured Nemisz wasn't the offensive catalyst on his line which is why he wasn't even ranked top 10 for NA skaters.

I think that if Tkachuk was riding his line mates coattails like Nemisz he'd be ranked like Nemisz.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Yeah the more I research the more I like Nylander. But because Tkachuk is likely gone by 6 anyway

If he could be cloned and given a different last name I would probably like him more.

I can't get over the younger brother thing.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Point Blank

This has already been addressed in the 2016 draft thread. You may make the argument that he's more of a complimentary player than an offensive catalyst, but you can't compare him to Nemisz. Nemisz is a poor comparable because he wasn't touted as highly even with good stats. Scouts likely figured Nemisz wasn't the offensive catalyst on his line which is why he wasn't even ranked top 10 for NA skaters.

I think that if Tkachuk was riding his line mates coattails like Nemisz he'd be ranked like Nemisz.

Well 25th overall is still pretty "highly touted". That's 185 spots more than the worst player in the draft, relatively speaking. Teams have historically dropped the ball in the top 10, and in fact, it usually happens every year, despite how players are touted.

I can appreciate needing to take risks, have complimentary players in your line-up, and even wanting size and truculence, but that's not what the top 10 picks are for. Top 10 picks are for impact players. If the scouts like Tkachuk because he goes into the corners and puts up numbers (as a beneficiary of good linemates) that's fine to have him high on your list, but he's a sloppy skater, which is one the most important things for a sport carried out on ice surface, and he's also experiencing a high degree of inflation. Not a safe investment.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Greg Nemisz and the 2009 Windsor spitfires. Thats what concerns me about the Flames and Tkachuk. Tkachuk is on the same line as Dvorak and Marner, both of whom are top 5 players in the OHL for two years in a row. It's hard to distinguish talent from beneficiary of talent. Half of Tkachuk's "playmaking" skills doesn't pan out with different line mates. Half his goals don't go in.

While you are at it comparing a late 1st round bust to one of the elite prospects of the 2016 draft don't forget the Daniel Tkaczuk bad karma.

[Jackpot_Smooth]

Originally Posted by Point Blank

This has already been addressed in the 2016 draft thread. You may make the argument that he's more of a complimentary player than an offensive catalyst, but you can't compare him to Nemisz. Nemisz is a poor comparable because he wasn't touted as highly even with good stats. Scouts likely figured Nemisz wasn't the offensive catalyst on his line which is why he wasn't even ranked top 10 for NA skaters.

I think that if Tkachuk was riding his line mates coattails like Nemisz he'd be ranked like Nemisz.

I think a better comparison to a complimentary player would be chris chucko. A guy that totally coat tailed it off of Travis Zajac.

[dammage79]

#6 OA pick from London Rico Fata...I mean Matt Tkachuk?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jackpot_Smooth

I think a better comparison to a complimentary player would be chris chucko. A guy that totally coat tailed it off of Travis Zajac.

Sigh. Darryl sure liked kids with size and only average skill. The new management whiffed with the Hunter Smith pick but at least that was a 2nd round pick. I hope this team sticks to drafting skill from now on as drafting based on size has been disasterous for this franchise.

[IgiTang]

Would prefer Nylander also.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Greg Nemisz and the 2009 Windsor spitfires. Thats what concerns me about the Flames and Tkachuk. Tkachuk is on the same line as Dvorak and Marner, both of whom are top 5 players in the OHL for two years in a row. It's hard to distinguish talent from beneficiary of talent. Half of Tkachuk's "playmaking" skills doesn't pan out with different line mates. Half his goals don't go in.


I would much prefer a purely skilled guy like Nylander, who's more certain based on the fact that his brother made the NHL and performed respectably, and Alex is the better of thr two.

Nylander also the last top righty available when the Flames pick

Is it not equally true that Dvorak and Marner are on the same line with Tkachuk....meaning he is just as much a driver of that success as they are?

It's silly to believe that scouts (in every scouting service available to us BTW) aren't entirely aware of whether or not one guy is carrying others or 2 guys are catalysts and one is just along for the ride. The services universally have him ranked top 10 IIRC....and thats a LOT of different scouts that have watched him that would have to be fooled.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Sigh. Darryl sure liked kids with size and only average skill. The new management whiffed with the Hunter Smith pick but at least that was a 2nd round pick. I hope this team sticks to drafting skill from now on as drafting based on size has been disasterous for this franchise.

Plus a 3rd on Kanzig

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Plus a 3rd on Kanzig

Kanzig is on Feaster/Weisbrod.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Jackpot_Smooth

I think a better comparison to a complimentary player would be chris chucko. A guy that totally coat tailed it off of Travis Zajac.

Yeah to me comparing Tkachuk to Nemisz doesn't work. IIRC Nemisz never played on the first line. He was 2nd line RW or third line centre in Windsor. Nemisz was Colborne light. He was soft and never used his size in the pros and so bombed.

Anyways he's now an assistant coach for the Oshawa Generals.

[Point Blank]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Well 25th overall is still pretty "highly touted". That's 185 spots more than the worst player in the draft, relatively speaking. Teams have historically dropped the ball in the top 10, and in fact, it usually happens every year, despite how players are touted.

I can appreciate needing to take risks, have complimentary players in your line-up, and even wanting size and truculence, but that's not what the top 10 picks are for. Top 10 picks are for impact players. If the scouts like Tkachuk because he goes into the corners and puts up numbers (as a beneficiary of good linemates) that's fine to have him high on your list, but he's a sloppy skater, which is one the most important things for a sport carried out on ice surface, and he's also experiencing a high degree of inflation. Not a safe investment.

I'm not saying Nemisz wasn't highly touted, I'm saying he wasn't as highly touted as Tkachuk. 25th overall to being projected to go between 4-8th overall is a huge difference and IMO not comparable at all.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Is it not equally true that Dvorak and Marner are on the same line with Tkachuk....meaning he is just as much a driver of that success as they are?

It's silly to believe that scouts (in every scouting service available to us BTW) aren't entirely aware of whether or not one guy is carrying others or 2 guys are catalysts and one is just along for the ride. The services universally have him ranked top 10 IIRC....and thats a LOT of different scouts that have watched him that would have to be fooled.

There's a bust every year, several times over, in the first round and often the top 10. Now there's many reasons why a player busts, but if we're going to pull the ISS card, then why have a draft? Just auto pick players based on scout consensus if it's such a sound science.

I like strong skaters. Even guys with low IQ and rock hard hands can still be your Paul Byron's and prime Mason Raymond's due to that asset alone. They have to be phenomenally excellent in other areas to get past a glaring skating weakness. Or your a defensemen who can cut off angles, but that's also IQ. For wingers, it's a paramount attribute for success.

Nylander is soft as butter. No question, but so is Backlund and Gaudreau and those guys are marquee players on the Flames. Nylander finds open space and has one of the best shots in the draft. He's just as dangerous around the parameter as he is in close. He's good with puck and has excellent IQ. He also gives the Flames a right hand, so it keeps opposing goalies honest when shots are coming from the other angle as the rest of the shooters. You can trade Backlund for Kassian any day, so it's not like you can have too many skilled players.

Honestly, if the Flames wanted a hard nosed big winger with skill, I would prefer they traded the 6th overall for one who's proven to be this, rather than risking the next 3-5 years potentially go to waste.

[icecube]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Greg Nemisz and the 2009 Windsor spitfires. Thats what concerns me about the Flames and Tkachuk. Tkachuk is on the same line as Dvorak and Marner, both of whom are top 5 players in the OHL for two years in a row. It's hard to distinguish talent from beneficiary of talent. Half of Tkachuk's "playmaking" skills doesn't pan out with different line mates. Half his goals don't go in.


I would much prefer a purely skilled guy like Nylander, who's more certain based on the fact that his brother made the NHL and performed respectably, and Alex is the better of thr two.

Nylander also the last top righty available when the Flames pick

Gimme a frickin break. Greg Nemisz sucks. He's always sucked. Don't mention him in the same breath as a stud like Tkachuk.