Are the Flames a "soft" team?

[JJ1532]

Pretty much self explanatory title. Are we a soft team? I ask because a number of threads and topics have skirted around this issue all season, especially over the last couple of days with regards to Ferland and Bollig, unanswered slashes on Gaudreau etc. Tried to find a number of ways to expand on this, but nothing seems to fit.

So I'll just leave this how it is. Are we too soft? That can apply to our general style of play, the PK, the bigger guys on the roster, the leaders on the roster etc. Is it down to the management? Are the players just not big enough as a group to play a more aggressive style? If we are too soft, how do we change that? Just interested to see what people thought about the topic in general, not trying to single any one guy out.

[Huntingwhale]

Soft like a cheese puff. A while back we had guys like Regehr, Iginla, Vandermeer, Sarich and Phaneuf. All guys who hit hard and weren't afraid to drop the gloves or get in the other teams face. While I think the personal we have doesn't allow for that style, that doesn't mean we can't have team toughness. The Flames lack it in spades. The only team I noticed that really seems to bring that element is when we play the Sharks. For some reason those games are always hard hitting and very physical. But more often then not, the Flames are a very soft team to play against.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

The team is not "soft" from a competitive perspective, they compete and don't like to lose.

From the perspective I think you mean, YES, far far too soft, and they need to get way less soft as they mature if they want to challenge for the cup.

[transplant99]

Its what happens when you essentially remove fighting from the game and keep the instigator as a penalty.

Stick work on star players will occur with far more frequency because there is little chance of retribution, and if there is someone willing to do something about it, they will just leave their team short handed.

Its the pussification of the game as it has been heading for the last decade now...maybe even longer.

[Erick Estrada]

Nope. Pretty average. There really aren't many intimidating teams anymore in the NHL as there aren't many fights and few thugs. Even a supposed retribution game between the Sharks and Oilers a few nights ago was very pedestrian. It's just not that type of league anymore for better or worse.

[GranteedEV]

Nope. Not soft at all. Only soft player - Raymond - has been demoted to the minors.

[AhiChicken]

Not soft. Medium-rare maybe but not soft.

[AcGold]

No, our goalies suck. They might not throw out huge hits but nobody backs out of the corners.

[Racki]

I have a feeling the last Battle of Alberta will give us an idea. The Oilers now have Kassian, Maroon, Hendricks, Nurse and Gazdic. They aren't getting pushed around. I look forward to this game.

[442scotty]

I wish we had maroon

[CalgaryFan1988]

People arguing to get rid of Ferland in one thread and now are we too soft?

I think people expect too much from the bottom 6. They can't all be 20 goal scorers.

If our PK was better, they would play a lot tougher IMO.

[memphusk]

Yes. This team is soft, but my favourite all time flame is Big Rig. I'm sure nothing will ever compare.

[Enoch Root]

way too soft

like CSW said, they compete hard, but they don't stand up for each other enough

[kirant]

In terms of hits and physicality, the Flames do with what they've got. They're a smaller team without a huge player to run over its opponents...they were minuscule before the trade deadline. I'm not convinced that they can do much as is. Having a large player who can protect the puck and finish plays (ex - Laine) or provides protection to Gaudreau and has scoring touch (ex - Lucic) would help immensely.

I think the team is soft in the sense that it doesn't defend itself with the "extracurricular activities". You can hack and slash Gaudreau all night or make a borderline hit without fear of a great response. I'm not sure if this is a team mentality or if it's Hartley holding them back...the team seems very tight off ice but isn't willing to defend themselves on ice.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Its what happens when you essentially remove fighting from the game and keep the instigator as a penalty.

Stick work on star players will occur with far more frequency because there is little chance of retribution, and if there is someone willing to do something about it, they will just leave their team short handed.

Its the pussification of the game as it has been heading for the last decade now...maybe even longer.

agree with what you're saying, but the OP's question is a relative one. The Flames are softer than most teams. And they are soft within the confines of what can currently be expected/allowed

[kyuss275]

Yes. They barley stick up for one another. Look at last night with Johnny Hockey getting speared by Keith. Not one player on the ice does anything? It's been happening for quite some time. Not just this team, but has seemed to be part of the make-up for the flames teams for quite some time. Remember Kipper always getting pushed over?

[thefoss1957]

I think that the whole mindset of "soft" "gritty" "whatever" needs to be put to bed...

I laugh uncontrollably when opposing announcers for games that feature the 'Hawks rave on and on on how their guys have a huge lead in "hit" stats and the like, while the scoreboard has the 'Hawks up by a couple of goals, and are completely dominating possession stats.

This is the path the league has been set on...and with liability from injuries, especially head injuries lurking for this league, this is the way it is going to be...

I mean when Toews is leading his team in fighting majors, then there really isn't any roster spot that is committed to a goon...and that has been the blueprint since the rise of the Red Wings over the last decade...Speed and skill>grit and blunt power.

Of course, the league certainly needs to have fined Keith for the slash (and sanction the refs for missing an obvious call)...but...for your guys, the BEST way to protect your guys, and incidentally, increase your chances of winning, is to make teams PAY regularly, by scoring, when those penalties ARE called.

If risking a PPG against is too high, those kind of stick plays will disappear...at least, until you get gutless officiating that "don't want to affect the outcome" (although POCKETING the whistle DOES "affect the outcome")

[CSharp]

Flames can be when they aren't going to the hard areas in the opposition zones and especially in their own zones. That's why they're looking in from the outside rather than in the playoffs. They've lost a lot of games early in the season due to this. The whole defensive core was pretty soft for the most part of the season. Instead of taking the body hard against smaller opponents in their own zone, they're always either standing around looking for the puck or trying to play the puck. In the offensive zone, especially the #1 line, the only guy willing to sacrificed his body in front of the net was a smaller Hudler. The second through 4th forward lines aren't soft. I'm actually more impressed with Backlund this year than all of his previous years combined. With the impressive games that they've won as a team, the team wasn't soft. So, if you look at a lot of the early losses they had, the team was much smaller and they were much softer than after the trading deadline.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by thefoss1957

I think that the whole mindset of "soft" "gritty" "whatever" needs to be put to bed...

I laugh uncontrollably when opposing announcers for games that feature the 'Hawks rave on and on on how their guys have a huge lead in "hit" stats and the like, while the scoreboard has the 'Hawks up by a couple of goals, and are completely dominating possession stats.

This is the path the league has been set on...and with liability from injuries, especially head injuries lurking for this league, this is the way it is going to be...

I mean when Toews is leading his team in fighting majors, then there really isn't any roster spot that is committed to a goon...and that has been the blueprint since the rise of the Red Wings over the last decade...Speed and skill>grit and blunt power.

Of course, the league certainly needs to have fined Keith for the slash (and sanction the refs for missing an obvious call)...but...for your guys, the BEST way to protect your guys, and incidentally, increase your chances of winning, is to make teams PAY regularly, by scoring, when those penalties ARE called.

If risking a PPG against is too high, those kind of stick plays will disappear...at least, until you get gutless officiating that "don't want to affect the outcome" (although POCKETING the whistle DOES "affect the outcome")

This thread isn't bout fighting though, it's about team toughness and sticking up for your team-mates.

Toews jumping on Hamilton after Hamilton was on top of Seabrook, is exactly the kind of response the Flames lack

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

This thread isn't bout fighting though, it's about team toughness and sticking up for your team-mates.

Toews jumping on Hamilton after Hamilton was on top of Seabrook, is exactly the kind of response the Flames lack

Exactly this. Now to be fair, we did see a bit of a respone from Jooris when Kadri hit Gaudreau, and that was a clean hit. I'd like to see that more often on not so clean stuff though. A reaction like Toews had, doesn't need to be a staged fight but stick up for your teammates.

I think the frustrating part is that we do have the type of players throughout the whole lineup that you'd think would do exactly that. Ferland, Hathaway, Bouma, Jooris, Bollig and Engelland. But they just aren't doing it. Maybe they're told to keep cool heads after Hartley has been fined for line brawls a few times now?