Honeymoon over in Winnipeg? Tickets going unsold

[calgaryblood]

Winnipeg can't even sell out their 15,000 person arena.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/spo...365053741.html

So much for all the people who were saying they'd sell out every game no problem. With the current Canadian economy how long can this last?

Many predicted this would happen including myself but never thought it would happen so soon.

will they be in trouble if this continues for 5 years? 10 years? And they don't really have much to look forward to either. They were a bad team as the Thrashers and are a bad team now.

[taco.vidal]

Bringing back the Moose gives an cheaper option for some.
The article also says tickets are still available in advance of games. What are actual numbers sold by game day and what are attendance numbers?

[Huntingwhale]

To be fair to Winnipeg, the low oil price must certainly be effecting them as a whole economically.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by taco.vidal

Bringing back the Moose gives an cheaper option for some.
The article also says tickets are still available in advance of games. What are actual numbers sold by game day and what are attendance numbers?

They are not selling out that's all that really matters when your arena can only house 15,000 people.

And if this can happen a few years after getting their team back what will happen in 5 years when they still suck? Attendance will probably be closer to 12,000.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

To be fair to Winnipeg, the low oil price must certainly be effecting them as a whole economically.

Isn't Winnipeg primarily an Agriculture & Logistics center?

[polak]

Oh man, I can't handle another "bring back the Jets" hype train.

[dissentowner]

The team is not meeting expectations for this season. They will be fine in the long run.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

"Best fans in the NHL"

Too bad there are so few of them.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Winnipeg can't even sell out their 15,000 person arena.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/spo...365053741.html

So much for all the people who were saying they'd sell out every game no problem. With the current Canadian economy how long can this last?

Many predicted this would happen including myself but never thought it would happen so soon.

will they be in trouble if this continues for 5 years? 10 years? And they don't really have much to look forward to either. They were a bad team as the Thrashers and are a bad team now.

This is the key point. You don't win and people don't show up. There's lots of money in Winnipeg and if the team wins, people will show up. Chipman has to grow a pair and tie the can to Chevy as he has been horrible.

Jets aren't going anywhere with Thomson's money behind them. Plus they have the bar/hotel near the arena which will offset any losses by the hockey operation.

[polak]

Okay but it's hard to win. You need to have a fan base that can suck up 4-5 years of suck and still show up in order to keep a team.

This was the whole argument against Winnipeg in the first place. Almost every market can draw well when the team is hot. It's what happens when the team gets in that rebuild stage that matters. In a bigger city with more money and corporate dollars, you can usually still find people and businesses willing to spend money on games even if the team sucks, but in a small city where money is tight for a lot of people? That's a big ask.

If the only way the Jets can stay profitable is by winning then this was a huge mistake. No team wins forever and very few can do it for longer then 3 or 4 years before regressing back into the rebuild. Infact, you're just as if not more likely to have a failed/extended rebuild ala the Oilers, Panthers or Islanders then to have any sort of prolonged success. Even teams like Calgary and Ottawa have sucked for the better part of a decade minus a couple of bright spots.

Considering the franchise that Winnipeg inherited was a disaster, I'm not surprised that they're having issues putting a good long term team together. I'm also not surprised that a city of under a million isn't going to shell out hundreds of dollars a game to go see a loss.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Isn't Winnipeg primarily an Agriculture & Logistics center?

Agreed. MB is taking up almost all my AB business slack. I dont think they are hurting at all.

[CaptainCrunch]

I said when the jets fans were clammering for the Jets to come back that this team would be a trouble spot going forward and would probably need some financial support from the league if the team didn't start winning and winning consistantly.

That building isn't a NHL building and they're at a disadvantage when competing with other teams spending wise no matter how rich the owner is, and the situation would get worse if the team started losing.

People tend to over romanticize the old jets, and that big bad NHL took the Jets aways for no reason.

but the fact of the matter is that attendance wasn't great for the old Jets, the fans didn't support them as NHL ticket prices rose, and they played in a non NHL building.

Well they're still playing in a non NHL building

The MTS center has a seating capacity of 15,000 and I believe 55 luxury suites

The Saddledome which is an older building seats over 19,000 and has I think 72 luxury suites

The new Rink in Edmonton will seat 18,000 plus and have 56 luxury suites.

If for whatever reason, the bad economy or bad teams chasing customers away, they don't have the margin of error that other NHL teams have.

[troutman]

The Jets owners don't want a larger arena. The current size maximizes demand and revenues for that market.

The biggest issue is the Canadian Dollar.

What happened in the 1990s there is almost irrelevant. The City and the general sports landscape has changed so much then.

[CaptainCrunch]

Just some attendance figures

in 1996-97 the Jets last year, they averaged just north of 11,000 fans per game, that's to be expected right I mean they were moving and nothing was going to stop that.

1995-96 when the fans were fighting to save the team it was about 11,300

1994-1995 they were averaging about 13,000 a game, which I think was the high point of their team.

Their fanbase might have been loud, but the city of Winnipeg didn't exactly flood out to support that team as NHL ticket costs increased.

[FlamesAddiction]

The hurting oil industry is being felt everywhere. It's not as obvious in places like Manitoba, but it still has an effect. Investors and developers are more careful with their money in these situations. Winnipeg does have some manufacturing which tends to do better when oil prices are lower, but the low prices haven't been around long enough to have had an impact yet.

That said, the economy always ebbs and flows. Winnipeg was always going to be in tough during the lean years. Hopefully for their sake, it doesn't last for too long.

[tete]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I said when the jets fans were clammering for the Jets to come back that this team would be a trouble spot going forward and would probably need some financial support from the league if the team didn't start winning and winning consistantly.

That building isn't a NHL building and they're at a disadvantage when competing with other teams spending wise no matter how rich the owner is, and the situation would get worse if the team started losing.

People tend to over romanticize the old jets, and that big bad NHL took the Jets aways for no reason.

but the fact of the matter is that attendance wasn't great for the old Jets, the fans didn't support them as NHL ticket prices rose, and they played in a non NHL building.

Well they're still playing in a non NHL building

The MTS center has a seating capacity of 15,000 and I believe 55 luxury suites

The Saddledome which is an older building seats over 19,000 and has I think 72 luxury suites

The new Rink in Edmonton will seat 18,000 plus and have 56 luxury suites.

If for whatever reason, the bad economy or bad teams chasing customers away, they don't have the margin of error that other NHL teams have.

Ding, ding ding. Especially the part about revisionist history. I lived in Winnipeg when the Jets left and I remember going to games where they barely drew 9000 people. You could buy nosebleeds and move down to the front row easily (similar to the Young Guns era here). Nobody wanted Jets tickets, yet when they left, all of a sudden, everyone was a Jets fan, Bettman was a jerk, and the big bad NHL took the Jets away from a city who loved them so much. When they got a franchise back, my first comments were to the extent of "Winnipeggers are fickle and cheap - if they have a losing team and rising ticket prices, the fans won't stay".

Their season ticket and waiting list model worked well for them ,but now that they're reaching the end of those 5 year season ticket holder agreements, it'll be interesting to see renewal rates. I don't think it'll drop a ton yet, but yes, no doubt, there'll be many more tickets up for sale for game days.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by polak

Okay but it's hard to win. You need to have a fan base that can suck up 4-5 years of suck and still show up in order to keep a team.

This was the whole argument against Winnipeg in the first place. Almost every market can draw well when the team is hot. It's what happens when the team gets in that rebuild stage that matters. In a bigger city with more money and corporate dollars, you can usually still find people and businesses willing to spend money on games even if the team sucks, but in a small city where money is tight for a lot of people? That's a big ask.

If the only way the Jets can stay profitable is by winning then this was a huge mistake. No team wins forever and very few can do it for longer then 3 or 4 years before regressing back into the rebuild. Infact, you're just as if not more likely to have a failed/extended rebuild ala the Oilers, Panthers or Islanders then to have any sort of prolonged success. Even teams like Calgary and Ottawa have sucked for the better part of a decade minus a couple of bright spots.

Considering the franchise that Winnipeg inherited was a disaster, I'm not surprised that they're having issues putting a good long term team together. I'm also not surprised that a city of under a million isn't going to shell out hundreds of dollars a game to go see a loss.

Chevy is a chicken gm that won't do anything unless he's forced to do so. Fans in Winnipeg are willing to endure losing to a point provided they see progress. It's been a step back this year. Winnipeg has lots of young assets that could be used to bring in young assets that can help win now. Why drouin is not a jet I don't understand. Why hamonic is not a jet is hard to believe. Preaching patience and staying the course wears thin on fans who need to see some light at the end of the tunnel. Winnipeg cut vets loose who wanted to return and brought in kids that weren't ready. Why they brought back burmistrov is beyond me. What really gets me is that Chevy complains about the rotten core he inherited from Atlanta and instead of moving them out he re-signs them. He's been a total disaster and I don't blame fans there for not re upping on tickets. Chipman needs to stop being loyal and sack him. And that coming from someone who isn't a jets fan.

[Erick Estrada]

It was always the worry due to the population that Winnipeg is a dicey proposition for an NHL team. Their ceiling is low from the very start with a small population and low capacity arena so they can't really afford to have lots of unsold tickets. It's one thing to have some empty seats in the Dome that seats 19k but it you look simply at attendance they can't afford not to sell out as if the Flames were only getting 15k to every game you can bet they wouldn't be a cap team.

Winnipeg isn't any different than any market that gets a new team in that there's a grace period where fans will come to watch regardless of the product and if the product doesn't improve or become a good team people are going to find other things to do or spend their money on. I think there's enough talent in the organization for them to build at least a solid team but the ownership really has to stop messing around and find a better GM and head coach here as I simply don't see them turning the corner with Chevy as GM.

As Captain said Winnipeg was never really a great NHL market in the first places so it's kind of fitting that the they got the Thrashers from a 2nd chance Atlanta market that failed for the same reasons it failed the first time.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Those in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones. I think we are going to see some serious attendance declines next year. What a lot of people forget is that all the Oil and services companies paid for these seasons tickets back in April. A lot of them won't be renewing. I would suspect there will be many empty boxes next year and many open lower bowl seats due to the economy.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

The Jets will never be as bad as teams like Florida or Carolina, in terms of revenue. They could probably have a 50% filled arena and still be on par with some of these other teams because Winnipeg doesn't have to give tickets away to get people to come, in fact they charge a premium, something others cannot do. I'm not sure why this is even a thing honestly, the Flames have had periods of dismal attendance in the past and they aren't trending well at the moment at all.