Thoughts on Treliving so far?

[T@T]

Maybe a 1-5 poll could be added?

Good at the two drafts but some less than stellar signings, the 3 headed goalie situation was brutal and as Hudler struggles in his likely last year he seems scared to make a deal to help the team get a potential top 6 natural RW. Even I could have found a sucker to take Wideman after he got 15 G and 56 pts last year.

I'll give him a soft 3 so far.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Moves I liked:
Trade for Dougie Hamilton.
Signed Michael Frolik.
Signed Jakub Nakladal.
Traded Sven Baertschi.

Moves I didn't like:

Signed Devin Setoguchi.
The way he handled Brian McGrattan.
Not trading Jonas Hiller and creating the three headed goaltending monster. Killed the season before it began.
Signed Lance Bouma to a big contract, for a player of his level.
Signed Paul Byron.
Signed Mark Giordano to a huge contract. A lot of risk to assume.
Brought Ryan Wilson in on PTO.

He's made a couple good moves, but he's made a couple of questionable ones. I rate him somewhere between a two and a three. Waiting for that move that is really going to define his direction for this team.

[Tinordi]

Hard to not give him good marks. He's responsibly stewarding a team in the middle of a rebuild. Most of the complaints will be at the margins such as signing or not signing some depth players or based on hypothetical fan-fictions such as why he didn't trade player x when he had the opportunity.

On hypothetical trade scenarios, we just don't know the markets for these players. Wideman is likely not moveable. I would have loved to have seen the fan reaction to trading Hudler at the draft prior to him falling off a cliff this season. Very difficult to grade him on a performance that we have no information by which to assess performance.

He signed toughness early thinking the team would be pushed around. I don't hold that against him. That's responsible.

He's had a problem with goaltending, but people were singing a different tune last year with how he hit a triple on goaltending. Difficult to really hang the goaltending thing on him, something went wrong in training camp when it was too late to really do anything about it.

In the end, he's traded depreciating assets when he's had the opportunity for futures. He's patiently inserting players into the lineup. He's made good FA acquisitions after his first round of toughness building. He's taking a measured approach to developing prospects, if you're ready you play, if you aren't you continue to develop. He appears to have overpaid on some homegrown contracts but it's a difficult situation to negotiate if you don't have replacements. And he isn't afraid of pulling the trigger on a big deal if it makes sense for the longer-term window of this team.

What's not to like?

[locsofblu]

Average at best so far. Some questionable moves but it's still way to early to tell. I also give him a soft three just because of the unrestricted free agents he brought in and the goalie situation at the start of the season.

[bubbsy]

so far, he's been ok.

I think last year was a bit of a "everything coming together" type situation, especially on the youthful exuberance side of things. this also made it difficult for management to move some peices that may have been more obvious. As an example, russel/wideman, one if not both should be viewed as guys that should be moved. however, both are a major part of that locker room and the leadership of this group, and the cohesiveness played a big role in last year's success. Hard to fault management on not busting that up this past offseason.

the goalie handling going into the season was a fail. one of his biggest tests will be what he does going into next season to address that critical position.

i'll probably get slammed for saying this, but as much as i like frolik as a player, i don't think that was a contract that needed to be picked up this past offseason. It seemed a bit premature given the state of the franchise, especially when everyone was saying the right things as far as last year the team was perhaps a bit fortunate and not as strong as the year played out.

this deadline/draft/offseason is really important for me, as far as grading our management:
- We have some UFAs that need to be moved and should be getting us half decent returns, be it something that helps the roster next season, or later (prospects/top 60 picks).

- how is goaltending addressed

- which prospects are really viewed as part of the pipeline, and which need to be shipped out (guys coming to an end of their prospect label/contracts).

at this point, i have a lot of faith that they have a pretty realistic view on where this team is at, and what needs to be addressed.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Hard to not give him good marks. He's responsibly stewarding a team in the middle of a rebuild. Most of the complaints will be at the margins such as signing or not signing some depth players or based on hypothetical fan-fictions such as why he didn't trade player x when he had the opportunity.

On hypothetical trade scenarios, we just don't know the markets for these players. Wideman is likely not moveable. I would have loved to have seen the fan reaction to trading Hudler at the draft prior to him falling off a cliff this season. Very difficult to grade him on a performance that we have no information by which to assess performance.

He signed toughness early thinking the team would be pushed around. I don't hold that against him. That's responsible.

He's had a problem with goaltending, but people were singing a different tune last year with how he hit a triple on goaltending. Difficult to really hang the goaltending thing on him, something went wrong in training camp when it was too late to really do anything about it.

In the end, he's traded depreciating assets when he's had the opportunity for futures. He's patiently inserting players into the lineup. He's made good FA acquisitions after his first round of toughness building. He's taking a measured approach to developing prospects, if you're ready you play, if you aren't you continue to develop. He appears to have overpaid on some homegrown contracts but it's a difficult situation to negotiate if you don't have replacements. And he isn't afraid of pulling the trigger on a big deal if it makes sense for the longer-term window of this team.

What's not to like?

This.

Summarized perfectly. Also, getting the picks he did for Baertschi and Glencross was nothing short of impressive, and the trade for Hamilton was a homerun. If there is any bad to discuss, the good far outweighs it. No GM is perfect.

[madmike]

He's been mediocre.

To be fair, I think some of his first contracts (like Raymond, Engellund, Bollig) were designed more to help the Flames hit the cap floor and be off the books by the time the Flames were ready to compete than to be legit signings for a contending team.

The Flames just happened to get better much faster than expected, which means these contracts are proving to be a bit of a pain.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by New Era

Moves I liked:
Trade for Dougie Hamilton.
Signed Michael Frolik.
Traded Sven Baertschi.

Moves I didn't like:

Not trading Jonas Hiller
Signed Lance Bouma to a big contract, for a player of his level.
Signed Mark Giordano to a huge contract. A lot of risk to assume.

Not sure most of these should be on a list of "moves"

I edited your list as bottom roster decisions are more necessary then team shaping.

I think the Hamilton move buys him a tonne of time, and he couldn't let Giordano walk so the contract has value in that he's playing well now, and should play well for a few years. Factor in culture and leadership and that one shouldn't bite him too hard.

[BrownDrake]

Treliving - are you listening?

Please move, waive or buyout some older guys & guys that don't fit into our time line (3 to 6 years) and under performers (Raymond, Wideman, Hudler, Russell, Jones etc.)

This team needs to get back some youth and enthusiasm - bring up and reward the Nakladals, Grants etc., experiment and find out what we have in the system over the next couple of years, show your youngsters earned not given.

Hope we see a young Dman (Kylington, Andersson, Hickey etc.) get 5 to 7 games early next season.

Seem to be killing hope again like the sutter years.

[Erick Estrada]

Two of the players he would love to move in Wideman and Smid he inherited. Raymond and Bollig were not great moves but they aren't long term issues. IMO Engelland is a serviceable bottom pairing guy and I've never really had a problem with that deal so I'm not overly concerned because these contracts aren't hurting the team seeing they are rebuilding and not remotely close to a contender at this point.

However I feel the Giordano contract is maybe the worst contract this organization has ever handed out and the worst part for me is that he did that contract under circumstances that favoured the player coming off a career season with another season left on his current deal. I have absolutely no doubt that if he waited until this season that the contract would have been lower seeing Giordano has come back to earth a bit and Brodie has kind of overtaken him as the main cog in the wheel. In the current era where everyone craves instant gratification I simply don't believe most Flames fans actually realize how much damage this deal is going to inflict on the organization. Now maybe GM's are operating on an understanding that they are going to get another round of compliance buyouts in the next CBA but I still cringe when I look at that contract. To make things worse after making that deal that will likely cripple this team in the future he is actually considering signing Russell to another deal that is going to hurt this team in the future. I'm starting to get the uneasy feeling this guy is going to put a mediocre, rebuilding team in cap jail before they have ascended into the ranks of the contenders.

It's hard to make much of his drafts because they take years to properly evaluate although I like the Hamilton deal so I give him a just a passing grade to date. IMO he's a lot like the team right now in that he needs to be better going forward so I would grade him a 7/10 but if he signs Russell to an extension I would drop the grade to 4/10.

[flambers]

I rated Treliving a "B"

Has been very consistent with his plan, has not went out and moved prospects and or draft picks for the tempting rental.

Made a hard decision to trade a pending UFA like Glencross...

Was able to acquire a key piece in Hamilton.

I'm really interested what the Flames will do with their goaltending....

Will the Flames move this years pending UFAs for draft picks.....

[HotHotHeat]

C

I would probably lean towards a B+ if it wasn't for the mismanagement in net. There clearly has not been a plan in place beyond rotating through three non-starters and hoping for a hot streak.

[Poe969]

With what he has/had I think he's done really well. It's hard to say he should be doing better because he hasn't really done anything too terrible, and the bad things seem to be fairly minor. I would have loved to see him trade Huds and Wideman in the off season after having great years but for all we know, there wasn't a market for them.

He's doing well with what he has and I think the team's future is looking better because of it. I think he's trending in the right direction.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by madmike

He's been mediocre.

To be fair, I think some of his first contracts (like Raymond, Engellund, Bollig) were designed more to help the Flames hit the cap floor and be off the books by the time the Flames were ready to compete than to be legit signings for a contending team.

The Flames just happened to get better much faster than expected, which means these contracts are proving to be a bit of a pain.

If this season should teach us anything, it is that the Flames didn't "get better much faster than expected". They overachieved last year, and that was obvious even without having a fanatical obsession with analytics. This season has been a correction.

What we should be hoping for is that Calgary follows a trajectory like the Isles did. They unexpectedly made the playoffs in 2012-13 then fell off a cliff the next year. However, that poor season did not change the fact that the pieces were coming together. The Isles were a strong team last year, and are a safe bet to make the playoffs this year. Two steps forward, one back, two forward. That's what we want the Flames to do at this point.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Two of the players he would love to move in Wideman and Smid he inherited. Raymond and Bollig were not great moves but they aren't long term issues. IMO Engelland is a serviceable bottom pairing guy and I've never really had a problem with that deal so I'm not overly concerned because these contracts aren't hurting the team seeing they are rebuilding and not remotely close to a contender at this point.

However I feel the Giordano contract is maybe the worst contract this organization has ever handed out and the worst part for me is that he did that contract under circumstances that favoured the player coming off a career season with another season left on his current deal. I have absolutely no doubt that if he waited until this season that the contract would have been lower seeing Giordano has come back to earth a bit and Brodie has kind of overtaken him as the main cog in the wheel. In the current era where everyone craves instant gratification I simply don't believe most Flames fans actually realize how much damage this deal is going to inflict on the organization. Now maybe GM's are operating on an understanding that they are going to get another round of compliance buyouts in the next CBA but I still cringe when I look at that contract. To make things worse after making that deal that will likely cripple this team in the future he is actually considering signing Russell to another deal that is going to hurt this team in the future. I'm starting to get the uneasy feeling this guy is going to put a mediocre, rebuilding team in cap jail before they have ascended into the ranks of the contenders.

It's hard to make much of his drafts because they take years to properly evaluate although I like the Hamilton deal so I give him a just a passing grade to date. IMO he's a lot like the team right now in that he needs to be better going forward so I would grade him a 7/10 but if he signs Russell to an extension I would drop the grade to 4/10.

Come on, really? You may not agree with these moves, but they are hardly awful decisions since Giordano is a high quality NHL player, and Russell is at the very least a solid bottom pairing defenseman.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

C

I would probably lean towards a B+ if it wasn't for the mismanagement in net. There clearly has not been a plan in place beyond rotating through three non-starters and hoping for a hot streak.

I agree the the goalie situation was completely bungled and that has been his biggest mistake.

To be fair though, given the reports that the Flames were in on all the goalies like Jones in the offseason, I'm sure he had a plan but couldn't execute.

A-.

He's done a few great things, lots of good things, and a few alright things that won't hurt the team long term.

Only real questionable is the length of the Gio contract which could turn out great or horrible, but he really had no other option. I would have been pissed if he had traded him.

I can't believe nobody has listed the Brodie contract as the "good". What a steal.

[codynw]

I'll give him a B+ because the good far outweighs the bad (especially because any of the "bad" stuff is short term). The Hamilton trade and the Brodie contract are his highlights so far.

[Huntingwhale]

I give him a B. Obviously the teams' inconsistencies play into ranking him lower then last season (he gets an A for last season, as we made the 2nd round). He hit a homerun with Hamilton. A trade you see only once in a blue moon. The Brodie contract needs no explaining. Possibly the best dman contract in the entire league.

The Gio signing, while it might be looked on as a bit of an overpayment, is hardly the worst contract signed in Flames history. While I agree with EE that Treliving should have waited until this season as he probably could have gotten a lower contract based on Gio's play this season, we have the luxury of hindsight. Reread this thread to see the universal consensus here on CP. A LARGE majority called in a win.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...light=giordano

If people want to backtrack on how they thought it was awesome, then that's fine. But Treliving doesn't get that luxury. IMO it's pretty unfair to fault him, as this is what we all wanted and he gave it to us.

The signing of Raymond and Setoguchi sucked. But at the time they were good risks. Seto lasted all of ~15 games and was demoted. Raymond I expected more from, but that's on the player. He was coming off a 49pts season with the Leafs and was consistently a top 6 guy his entire career. 3x3 seemed fair at the time. At some point you have to blame the player. Engelland, while it was an overpayment at the time, stepped up huge when Gio went down and was a major reason our D didn't miss a beat down the stretch. He's serviceable and is our only tough guy on the backend.

Garbage like Jones and Wideman (this season) were Feaster's signings and no one is trading those guys with those contracts. If we are to believe the reports that Treliving was trying to trade Wideman in the offseason, they it throws T@T's argument that even he could have found a sucker to take that contract after Wideman's career high. Obviously Wideman's contact is close to impossible to move. Treliving didn't give him the NMC either.

I don't fault him for Hiller, because Hiller put up a pretty damned good .918 sv% last season. The goaltending duo was more then good last season. While the 3 headed monster sucked to start, those guys are professionals and should have worked through it.

All in all Treliving has been what I expected. No GM is going to get high marks during a rebuild. The fact we made the post season last season was a bonus, but I fully expected the team to take a step back this season, as many players had career seasons and a lot went right for the team. To me his moment of truth will be in how he handles the coaching staff this offseason. He gave Hartley a 2 year extension. To me that says he's not committed to him long term, here's a ''bridge'' contract of sorts to see if you're the guy to take us to the next level. Does he stick with Hartley and risk having the same type of mind boggling decisions next season? Or does he bring in his own guy?

IMO this summer, entering year 4 of a rebuild when the light should be starting to appear at the end of the tunnel, will be when we get a real idea of if he's the right GM for this team.

I think personally think he is.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Come on, really? You may not agree with these moves, but they are hardly awful decisions since Giordano is a high quality NHL player, and Russell is at the very least a solid bottom pairing defenseman.

Today when the team is a mediocre draft lottery team I agree. The real damage would be down the road when both of them turn into Wideman situations where their salaries will prohibit the GM from retaining players and both are unreadable. Mark my words it's not a matter of if but when. Take a look at the Giordano deal spread out over its entirety and think about Monahan, Brodie, Gaudreau, Bennett, the guy they draft in the top 5 this year, etc all requiring to be locked up long term. It's just an awful contract.

[habernac]

He gets a B from me. Last year was an anomaly. I like the building blocks of this team very much.