Trans-Pacific Partnership

[MaDMaN_26]

Lots of talk about an "ultra-secret" multinational agreement mostly driven by lobbyists and other special interest groups has had many people concerned about invasive copyright laws and internet freedoms.

Wikileaks has gotten its hands on a recent copy of this agreement and well... leaked it.

https://wikileaks.org/tpp/#start

I have been pointing people at https://openmedia.org/censorship for months... but it can be viewed as a little alarmist so figured I'd post the leaked agreement itself for those that want to judge for themselves.

(I did a search for Trans-Pacific Partnership but only got an old SOPA link... I'm surprised there is no existing thread for this... maybe Fata?)

[NuclearPizzaMan]

Do not post national secrets online citizen!

Canada seems to be on the side of reason in the negotiations, along with everyone but the US and Australia (even as the Australian government encourages creativity to get around gouging region pricing)

http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/6994/125/

Secret treaties to backdoor laws around local legislatures is pretty disgusting.

[SebC]

Fundamentally, free trade is not about special interests but moreso the common good. I would generally characterize protectionism as putting special interests above the common good and free trade as the opposite. Of course, specific free trade agreements can still be hijacked by special interests.

On the whole, TPP should be a good thing. Whether or not it actually is depends on implementation.

[Azure]

With the government pushing for so many free trade agreements with other countries you have to think that our treasured(or not so treasured) supply management system might not be so protected anymore.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Azure

With the government pushing for so many free trade agreements with other countries you have to think that our treasured(or not so treasured) supply management system might not be so protected anymore.

We managed to hold on to most of it through the CETA negotiations...

[MaDMaN_26]

5 questions and answers about the TPP leaked chapter

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...aked-tpp-text/

[photon]

Full text released.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/1...s-users-rights

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by SebC

Fundamentally, free trade is not about special interests but moreso the common good. I would generally characterize protectionism as putting special interests above the common good and free trade as the opposite. Of course, specific free trade agreements can still be hijacked by special interests.

On the whole, TPP should be a good thing. Whether or not it actually is depends on implementation.

Ya, we have protectionism going on with our cell phone companies and how well has that worked for everybody. Nothing wrong with opening up the market. Cattle producers as far as I understand are all for the agreement.

[VladtheImpaler]

Free trade is objectively a good thing and a net benefit to society. As with any change, there are always "losers" and "winners", but winners outnumber losers.

[GGG]

i appreciate the liberals openness with this. 6000 pages of light reading. I hope someone supplies an even handed interpretation of the key parts. As the spin on this thing is going to be ugly

[undercoverbrother]

Yeah New Zealand have it on their website


http://tpp.mfat.govt.nz/text

[FlameOn]

Apparently it's a horrible deal for Canada. Tariffs to be removed for dairy and auto products in exchange for open access to foreign markets. We get the shaft on the implementation times too... 5 years to ratify vs. 30 years for the US. WTF?

So we have a huge trade deficit with all the TPP countries that did not ratify with NAFTA and now we are removing tariffs against those countries, wouldn't that make it worse for us? Also huge increases in copyright duration apparently.

Side effect of the fast-track of the TPP agreement during an election. Who agreed to this mess again?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by GGG

i appreciate the liberals openness with this. 6000 pages of light reading. I hope someone supplies an even handed interpretation of the key parts. As the spin on this thing is going to be ugly

I was going to say the same thing. Have you seen the size of that document? The cure for cancer could be in there and we'd never know.

[GGG]

Getting rid of tariffs on dairy is fantastic news for the Canadian consumer.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by GGG

Getting rid of tariffs on dairy is fantastic news for the Canadian consumer.

Yah, what do I care about dairy farms in Quebec? Dairy from Washington State is fine by me. Free trade is always good for the consumer, and since I don't own a sprocket factory or Bessie the milk cow, bring it on.

[stampsx2]

and if this is to encourage an open market then what's wrong with the trade agreement? It should bring down prices on all imports since there's no tariffs on products. Matter of fact automobile companies for example will benefit by paying lower prices for imported raw materials. I don't see what the hype is about. If it's cause the Canadian public wasn't consulted then good. There would of been to many for and against and nothing ever gets done that way (keystone pipeline).

As far as I understand this encourages a free market and a greater overseas market for Canadian products so I think it's a win for Canada. Sure there's less protectionism for Canadian made but that just means Canadian products need to be more competitive just like every other nation has to.

It's a win for the consumer.

[GGG]

I would say the only risk and what I would like to know is that if we can require a certain quality.

If we lose the ability to specify steroid free milk then I would have an issue but to get that kind of detail we need a real good summary of the document

[Fuzz]

HA! We are supposed to have free trade with the US. Try ordering something online and when the duties come in, tell me how "free" the trade is. Consumers will get screwed, as they always do.

As for this specifically, look into the patent and copy-write issues if you want to see where Canadians are going to get screwed hard on the TPP. You can start with anything Micheal Geist writes. Get informed.

Harper committed to buying off dairy farmers for several billion dollars. That should tell you enough about it that our tax dollars have to placate our industry, at least temporarily, how good it will be for us. And what happens when that money is gone and our industry is suffering?

[blueski]

Originally Posted by SebC

Fundamentally, free trade is not about special interests but moreso the common good. I would generally characterize protectionism as putting special interests above the common good and free trade as the opposite. Of course, specific free trade agreements can still be hijacked by special interests.

On the whole, TPP should be a good thing. Whether or not it actually is depends on implementation.

For sure, but something written by corporate lobbyists behind closed doors and sold as free trade might be an entirely different evil best of a thing

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

HA! We are supposed to have free trade with the US. Try ordering something online and when the duties come in, tell me how "free" the trade is. Consumers will get screwed, as they always do.

As for this specifically, look into the patent and copy-write issues if you want to see where Canadians are going to get screwed hard on the TPP. You can start with anything Micheal Geist writes. Get informed.

Harper committed to buying off dairy farmers for several billion dollars. That should tell you enough about it that our tax dollars have to placate our industry, at least temporarily, how good it will be for us. And what happens when that money is gone and our industry is suffering?

Why would we buy out the dairy industry. It's the same stupid argument as needing to buy out can licences.