Massive document leak regarding US Drone Program

[nik-]

https://theintercept.com/drone-papers

People might not care about this one as much as the NSA spying on its own citizens. But when it comes down to brass tacks, this is probably creating more terrorists than it kills.

Published by Jeremy Scahill who is the journalist behind the documentary Dirty Wars.

http://www.wired.com/2015/10/a-secon...of-drone-docs/

Reports first surfaced in the fall of last year that the Intercept, a news site created in part to analyze and publish the remaining cache of Snowden NSA documents, had found a second source of highly classified information. The final scene of the film “Citizenfour,” directed by Intercept co-founder Laura Poitras, shows fellow Intercept co-founder Glenn Greenwald meeting with Snowden in Moscow to tell him about a new source with information about the U.S. drone program, whom he says has been communicating with the Intercept‘s Jeremy Scahill. At one point, Greenwald draws Snowden a diagram of the authorization chain for drone strikes that ends with the president, one that looks very similar to the one included in Thursday’s publication.

[Canehdianman]

Lol, brass tax.

[nik-]

I didn't realize it was tacks :\

[peter12]

On the whole, not surprising, but more horrifying than you ever imagined.

[White Out 403]

This is why the world needs a Bernie sanders presidency, not a Clinton one.

Hillary will just toe the line from her milliltary industrial complex overlords and bomb the #### out of everyone with drones.

[Azure]

Drones can be highly effective. JSOC is highly effective, and downright scary in terms of power they can project.

But at what cost? ISIS is still growing, so clearly the US is doing something wrong.

I'm all for targeting individual high ranking terrorists all over the world, but there needs to be some kind of way to properly regulate the program. The way this is being run is downright crazy.

[Thor]

Its become too easy, and the more they do it, the easier the decisions become to continue. This is why it needs to stop, it can only become worse over time.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Azure

Drones can be highly effective. JSOC is highly effective, and downright scary in terms of power they can project.

But at what cost? ISIS is still growing, so clearly the US is doing something wrong.

I'm all for targeting individual high ranking terrorists all over the world, but there needs to be some kind of way to properly regulate the program. The way this is being run is downright crazy.

Ironically enough, the use of Drones is in and of itself a terror tactic, by employing it they provide incentive for people to join terrorist organizations and commit acts of terror against them because at the same time they devalue any moral imperative against terrorism.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Thor

Its become too easy, and the more they do it, the easier the decisions become to continue. This is why it needs to stop, it can only become worse over time.

Absolutely. The technological imperative makes decisions like these appear to be far less costly than they really are. If you had to send in special forces to pinpoint assassinate every target, you would be much less cavalier about collateral damage.

[FlamesAddiction]

If not drones, then it would be missiles or fighter jets doing the dirty work.

IMO, the issue here isn't the tool being used, but the morals of assassinations versus conventional war tactics.

They have been firing missiles and bombing countries that they are not technically at war with since the 1960s. Drones are just a new technology, but the tactics are virtually the same.

[nik-]

The morality may be the same, but the tactics are not. The US could not have jets circling areas for days hoping to find someone like they do with drones. Jets can deliver the same payload, but they can't be the constant eye in sky that drones can.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by nik-

The morality may be the same, but the tactics are not. The US could not have jets circling areas for days hoping to find someone like they do with drones. Jets can deliver the same payload, but they can't be the constant eye in sky that drones can.

Not to mention the low costs involved - both financial and moral. The low degree of human control along the chain of command certainly decreases the amount of "second-guessing."

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

If not drones, then it would be missiles or fighter jets doing the dirty work.

IMO, the issue here isn't the tool being used, but the morals of assassinations versus conventional war tactics.

They have been firing missiles and bombing countries that they are not technically at war with since the 1960s. Drones are just a new technology, but the tactics are virtually the same.

You're probably right, but should the US even be doing this in the first place? Ever since the end of WW2, the US has interfered in the politics of other nations, often creating more problems than solutions. First it was for the fight against communism, then drugs and now it is terror.

Every time you launch a drone on a wedding party, killing dozens of innocents (and possibly your target in the process) you create more terrorists and reinforce their beliefs.

Maybe it is time for them to take a much more passive approach to intelligence and worry about trying to prevent potential threats from reaching the border instead of trying to eliminate them in their own country.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

You're probably right, but should the US even be doing this in the first place? Ever since the end of WW2, the US has interfered in the politics of other nations, often creating more problems than solutions. First it was for the fight against communism, then drugs and now it is terror.

Every time you launch a drone on a wedding party, killing dozens of innocents (and possibly your target in the process) you create more terrorists and reinforce their beliefs.

Maybe it is time for them to take a much more passive approach to intelligence and worry about trying to prevent potential threats from reaching the border instead of trying to eliminate them in their own country.

I agree. Even Nazis had trials. The biggest issue for me is that they pick assassination targets and don't have to submit evidence to anyone on why or how they determined who those targets are. They answer to literally no one. I am sure there are cases of mistaken identity and situations where informants are not reliable.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by nik-

The morality may be the same, but the tactics are not. The US could not have jets circling areas for days hoping to find someone like they do with drones. Jets can deliver the same payload, but they can't be the constant eye in sky that drones can.

The fact that UAVs can sit up in the sky where they can't even be seen from the ground. This makes it like shooting fish in a barrel.