Ongoing Sea King Replacement Debacle Thread

[I-Hate-Hulse]

I thought about resurrecting the threads from 2008 and 2004 to emphasize just how long of a saga this has been for Canada but figured a 9 yr bump would make some heads explode around here....

Yes indeed, the replacement for the Sea King, the MH-92 Superhawk/Cyclone appears to be in serious trouble...

There are signs the Canadian government is preparing to pull the plug on a delay-plagued, multibillion-dollar purchase of naval helicopters, with the Harper Conservatives announcing they are now looking at other choppers.
“The government is considering other options for the Maritime Helicopter Project,” a spokeswoman for Public Works Minister Diane Finley said Thursday.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...board/follows/


At this point - the govt needs to run, not walk to a platform currently in production, preferably in use. NH90's? Newly freshened Merlin Mk2?



Fleet commonality and current experience would of course suggest that the Merlin/AW101 would be the logical contender, but as the last few decades would suggest... logic has yet to prevail....

Sole source it, whatever. Let's just get this done.

[CaptainCrunch]

Meanwhile the EH-101 that Chretien canceled out of spite at great expense is now a very successful helicopter platform.

Maybe we need to go back to that bird

[RougeUnderoos]

You know, if I could do it all over again, I would have majored in Hypothetical Aircraft Sales when I was in school.

What a racket this is! Sell the client a few promises, collect my millions, billions, or (fingers crossed) trillions, don't deliver anything, and keep all the money. It's a hell of a business plan.

[jeffman]

Perhaps we should wait for the military derivatives of compound helicopter demonstrators like the Sikorsky X2

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Current Sea King Cockpit:

Spoiler!

Touch screen displays on the new Merlin Mk2 (aka EH101 v1.1)

[pylon]

What the hell is wrong with this country and purchasing aircraft?

They need to make these decisions somehow non-partisan so the safety of the country, not politics dictate what and when we buy stuff.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Meanwhile the EH-101 that Chretien canceled out of spite at great expense is now a very successful helicopter platform.

Maybe we need to go back to that bird

Nice job Cap'n. You just had to know that somehow it was all the fault of the Liberal Party.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Nice job Cap'n. You just had to know that somehow it was all the fault of the Liberal Party.

Actually, yes it is. All of this nonsense lies at the feet of Chretien.

[cDnStealth]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Nice job Cap'n. You just had to know that somehow it was all the fault of the Liberal Party.

Considering that the Liberals cut military funding and drove the service into the ground, ya, it is their fault. They've been trying to replace these things since the 80s. This helicopter debacle should have never gotten to this point to begin with.

[Slava]

The CPC has been in power for nearly a decade...surely something could've been done over that time?

[Northendzone]

it was awesome that the gov't paid 500 million or something like that for nothing.....it seems to be very difficult for the military to buy aircraft

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Slava

The CPC has been in power for nearly a decade...surely something could've been done over that time?

Like what, cancel the contract and pay another half billion dollar cancellation fee?

Remember this was a selection of the Liberal's as was the time lines.

There's nothing in this situation that isn't firmly on the feet of Jean Chretien.

We all knew when Chretien cancelled the contract he did it out of spite, and to show that he was a big man.

Oh no these helicopters are way to nice for the Navy, lets just buy some pintos.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Like what, cancel the contract and pay another half billion dollar cancellation fee?

Remember this was a selection of the Liberal's as was the time lines.

There's nothing in this situation that isn't firmly on the feet of Jean Chretien.

We all knew when Chretien cancelled the contract he did it out of spite, and to show that he was a big man.

Oh no these helicopters are way to nice for the Navy, lets just buy some pintos.

So the CPC has been in power for basically a decade, and has complained about this contract for virtually the entire time....and done nothing about it? I think that both governments of the day have screwed this up. Sure, the Liberals created the initial issue perhaps, but the CPC has done nothing to rectify it. There is only so long that you can blame your predecessor in my opinion.

[Canehdianman]

Originally Posted by Slava

So the CPC has been in power for basically a decade, and has complained about this contract for virtually the entire time....and done nothing about it? I think that both governments of the day have screwed this up. Sure, the Liberals created the initial issue perhaps, but the CPC has done nothing to rectify it. There is only so long that you can blame your predecessor in my opinion.

What do you suggest they do? If the contract has a huge payment in the event of cancellation, then you are going to be on the hook for it no matter what.

Might as well wait as long as possible to let inflation burn the value of the cancellation fee down.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Slava

So the CPC has been in power for basically a decade, and has complained about this contract for virtually the entire time....and done nothing about it? I think that both governments of the day have screwed this up. Sure, the Liberals created the initial issue perhaps, but the CPC has done nothing to rectify it. There is only so long that you can blame your predecessor in my opinion.

With a majority government, no less.

Harumph.

If only Diefenbaker had not cancelled the Arrow, then Chretien's hand's would not have been tied with the Sea Kings.

Really, at this point, the fact that Canada doesn't have modern military equipment in 2013 is because Chretien cancelled a project in 1993.

[photon]

Maybe if we re-order the EH-101 they'll give us our cancellation fee back?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Canehdianman

What do you suggest they do? If the contract has a huge payment in the event of cancellation, then you are going to be on the hook for it no matter what.

Might as well wait as long as possible to let inflation burn the value of the cancellation fee down.

The reality is this is why they get paid. I don't know what should've been done, but the old line of "its the other guys fault" is pretty ridiculous after you've been in power for seven years going on eight.

[Ryan Coke]

But sometimes it really is the other guys fault.

[CaptainCrunch]

Again what are they going to do burn another half billion to a billion on cancellation fees.

I think the hope was to husband a bad choice through and replace the Seakings.

There was literally not much that the Conservatives could do that wouldn't cost a ridiculous amount of money.

the actions that Chrietien took and John Macallum who was an absolute joke as a defense minister screwed this replacement process over completely and left us with a sub standard helicopter.

Its the liberals dish soap and the current government is going to have to soak in it, and probably do a very expensive crash replacement project.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Again what are they going to do burn another half billion to a billion on cancellation fees.

I think the hope was to husband a bad choice through and replace the Seakings.

There was literally not much that the Conservatives could do that wouldn't cost a ridiculous amount of money.

the actions that Chrietien took and John Macallum who was an absolute joke as a defense minister screwed this replacement process over completely and left us with a sub standard helicopter.

Its the liberals dish soap and the current government is going to have to soak in it, and probably do a very expensive crash replacement project.

What about the issues in 2008, 2010 though? The helicopters were supposed to be delivered and the CPC has been managing procurement through that whole time. How many years do you get to blame the previous party?

Like I say, I have no idea about these things and what should be done. I just don't like the idea that the CPC has done nothing to fix what they've complained about for nearly 10 years now. Have they purposefully let this fester so that they could throw it back to the previous regime?